Leadership Inflection Points with Chris Prenovost
Okay. Let's start here. I'd love which I didn't tell you I was gonna ask this, but I'd love to know of a a story or or something that kind of illustrates why you're so passionate about leadership teams in general? Like, can you think of a particular story that, like, highlights, man, that's why I'm so energized around this subject.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, as I just spoke with Ben about, it it really comes down to at some point the business is gonna reach a sticking point where the leader is the linchpin. Right? We call this stage two of business, right?
Chris Prenovost:Stage one is where you you start the business, you buy the business, you know, you inherit it, whatever it is. Stage two is where most leaders live and as you are the main battery source for the organization, you're also the spare batteries and the backup batteries too, right? The whole business hinges on you and that's where I was, Right? And until you can get stage three is deciding to do something about it. Right?
Chris Prenovost:Stage four is where you've built the leadership team out around you and below them to where you're not the main battery and the backup. That's shared now with the rest of the team. Okay. Which allows you to get to stage five, which is reaching your your legacy impact as an entrepreneurial freedom. And I see so many people getting stuck in that stage two, which is where I was.
Chris Prenovost:And it it just it's not fun. It's not Elaborate
Alex Judd:on that. Like, what does it feel like to be in stage two?
Chris Prenovost:Well, it feels like you can't take a day off or if you do, you're getting up early. Even if I'm on vacation, right, there was literally times I'd be on vacation and I was getting up two hours before my family so I could answer email. And then trying to go to Disneyland or something, for the day, but I'd be on the phone while my kids are on a ride.
Alex Judd:We should have a different word. It shouldn't even be called a vacation at that point. No,
Chris Prenovost:it's not. You're you're just working somewhere else. Basically what it is. And and that's just it's it's not fun. It's not free.
Alex Judd:Do you think it's necessary for a period of time as you're building a business to be in stage two?
Chris Prenovost:Probably. Mhmm. Right? I think there's certain humility that's that's generated when you're in stage two. Sure.
Chris Prenovost:There's definitely some learning experiences there, but I think it it's it builds the character that's required to, you know, ultimately make that decision. Right? Like we talked about on our hike earlier, you've got to get to a point where that pain of staying where you're at is so painful that you're gonna endure the pain of the change. And I don't think that if if it's not painful enough where you're at, because the change is gonna be painful Mhmm. You're not gonna be committed to it.
Alex Judd:Yeah. So, I mean, this overlays really well with what we talk about within Path for Growth, which is founder, operator, CEO, owner. And and we often see that, like, that chasm or gap between operator and CEO is a stalling out point. Yeah.
Chris Prenovost:It's one
Alex Judd:of the reasons why I love y'all's model that, like, literally, the decision itself is a stage. Yeah. So speak to me a little bit about what goes into someone actually making that decision. Like, what causes that line in the sand moment for people oftentimes?
Chris Prenovost:I I think it can be different for everybody. Yeah. Right? I've seen people lose a good client because they fell on their face on operations, right? I've seen people a lot of times will have financial weakness in the organization and what I mean by financial weaknesses, financial controls, the systems and processes around finances.
Chris Prenovost:And if that's the case, we're making good revenue, we're we're actually profitable, but the money's flying out the back door and we don't know where it's going. Right? So there's a lot of times there's some sort of a catalyst that happens in there that they just say, I'm not gonna do this. It's not worth it.
Alex Judd:Do you ever run into individuals that they actually have the foresight and, like, the proactive nature about them to be like, if I continue going the way that I'm going, the result will be pain. So I'm gonna proactively make this decision to to kind of basically do the stages we're talking about ahead of the curve instead of behind the curve.
Chris Prenovost:I've seen that a few times.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Right? It's rare.
Chris Prenovost:Right? It's a very, very rare exception. And I don't think they generally engage for the long term. Because again, going back to they haven't experienced that pain. So they the first time they start to hit any kind of friction through the the fixing process
Alex Judd:Yeah.
Chris Prenovost:They just revert right back to where they were.
Alex Judd:Interesting. Because that's the path of least resistance almost. Yeah. One of the areas where I see it sometimes happen is if someone they don't run multiple businesses, but they own multiple businesses. Like, they had that experience with round one.
Alex Judd:Yep. And then they're like, I'm never doing that again. And for the subsequent enterprises they start, they're, like, they're so ahead of the curve. Yeah. And it almost sounds like, man, we've got this unique opportunity to learn from our own mistakes, but also learn from other mistakes and just say this is the next stage in doing things.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. Absolutely.
Alex Judd:So what is the actual decision? Like, what is the decision that you're making at stage three to move forward and grow?
Chris Prenovost:I think it's it's really reaching that point of no return of I am not going to continue down this path. It's not worth it. That's where I was. We literally talked about shutting the business down. We were doing $6,000,000 a year in revenue.
Chris Prenovost:We talked about shutting it down because we didn't want to continue on the path we were on.
Alex Judd:What would you have done if you had shut it down? I have no idea.
Chris Prenovost:Luckily, I didn't have
Alex Judd:to You're literally at the spot where it's like anything but this.
Chris Prenovost:Anything but this.
Alex Judd:That is one of the really hard parts about that decision making stages. You are actually emotionally placed in a spot where you're not operating very rationally, and I think people can make some really bad mistakes at that spot.
Chris Prenovost:Absolutely. I see it all the time.
Alex Judd:Yeah. So when you have a conversation with someone that's basically on empty, and they're either like, I need to re up and we're gonna do something radically different, or I'm gonna opt out and we're gonna do something radically different.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah.
Alex Judd:How do you counsel and talk to that person?
Chris Prenovost:You know, I first, I tell my story. Right? Because I think it's a lot easier to relate to somebody who's been there and done that. Right? So that's part of it.
Chris Prenovost:But you have to help them see what the future can be, right? And see that it's it's we're not talking about crazy changes out of the gate. Right? They're incremental. Right?
Chris Prenovost:Like I mentioned earlier, this is not something that is it's not rocket science. It's not some crazy silver bullet that's gonna come in and save the day. It's just simple things like clarity on expectations, right? Boundaries in place as far as behaviors go, clear measurables for success, right? I think most humans, in America, we're kind of wired to win, right?
Chris Prenovost:We wanna win, But it's when it's unclear where the goal line is at for our team, how do they know if they won the week or won the day or won the month? Right? And if we can put some some really clear simple things in place around those, our team will go and keep us really happy.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. It feels to me as though there's almost like a there's a couple different paths or probably a multitude of different paths of like, I've made this decision. I wanna grow as a leader. Mhmm. Now what?
Alex Judd:And it's like, it it seems like one of the paths is people literally just go to Barnes and Noble, and they look for the titles or the covers that speak the loudest to them, and they're like, I'm just gonna pick that up and go after that. Yep. Which certainly isn't bad, but it's also probably not the most efficient just to get a smattering of content.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah.
Alex Judd:When people actually make that decision and they say, okay, I wanna do different things to get different results. Like, what do you advise in terms of what's the path that they actually walk?
Chris Prenovost:So I I think what ends up happening at least in today's age with most people is they will either, like I say, go to Barnes and Noble and pick up a book or they'll go on TikTok and see a video or and they'll latch on to one thing. Right? And that's that's fine if that's gonna be the the impetus to get you started down this path, But you have to look at the rest of the picture. Right? So engaging with somebody who can guide you and facilitate those conversations and coach you through those things, that can be a huge value add because while you might be focusing on one piece of it, let's say it's core values, right?
Chris Prenovost:We're gonna go and put in core values. Well, that's fine and it's a necessary part of it. But if you don't also put in accountability as part of generating what then defining what a right person and the right seat is, you've only got half the equation figured out. Mhmm. Right?
Chris Prenovost:And we haven't even talked about everything else that's on the table.
Alex Judd:Yeah. And I think it's really it's really challenging to do on your own because it's not like you're at that gap between operator and CEO. And it's not like, okay. Now I've decided I want to be the CEO, so I'll just take my operator hat off and give that to someone else while I go be CEO now and learn how to do that. It's like, you are literally managing the thing that you have built, which in some cases is a a $23,000,000 enterprise.
Alex Judd:That's full a time job, and now you're trying to figure out how to be a CEO at the same time. So from your perspective, if someone's at that stage, when does a leadership team come into the picture?
Chris Prenovost:As soon as possible. Yeah. Right?
Alex Judd:I think That's an interesting answer.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. I I think it really needs to happen as soon as possible. And and when I say that there are different stages of leadership team. Right? You could be a $2,000,000 business and you've only got, you know, eight, ten people, 15 people on the team, but you should probably have a leadership team at that point.
Chris Prenovost:Mhmm. Right? They might be more mid level managers. Right? You're still making the strategic decisions at that point, but you've got to have people who own accountability of certain parts of the business.
Chris Prenovost:Right? Shared accountability. When everything falls on one person's shoulders, that's not
Alex Judd:a sustainable model. Yeah. What's the why for as early as possible?
Chris Prenovost:It's going to let you scale as fast as possible. Because when when that one person is carrying all that accountability, they're not gonna be killing it in all those areas. Mhmm. Right? They probably have one or two areas are doing okay and the other two areas are really suffering because of it.
Chris Prenovost:So the faster you can fix that issue, the faster you can get the business unstuck and start building that momentum towards what the the dreams you wanna be.
Alex Judd:What what do you want a CEO focused on? What are the core responsibilities, results Mhmm. Areas that they're investing their time and energy that you want them focused on.
Chris Prenovost:You know, it gets different for every CEO. This is really one of the seats on the bus that I think is person dependent.
Alex Judd:K? You and I might actually disagree there, which would be fun.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it. So I think it's gotta be because the and and when I say CEO, I'm generally also referring to the owner or the founder.
Alex Judd:Sure. Sure. Sure.
Chris Prenovost:They're not leaving. They're not going anywhere.
Alex Judd:So At least right now they're not.
Chris Prenovost:Correct.
Alex Judd:Yeah.
Chris Prenovost:So we've got to make sure that that it's gonna fit their hardwiring. Mhmm. Okay. So if you've got a very financial minded CEO, then they should be leaning that way. If you have a sales and marketing minded CEO, which is probably most CEOs, most founders, they should be leaning that way and owning some big relationships and part of the sales process.
Chris Prenovost:They're probably gonna be the best salesperson that they've got.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Maybe it's not a distinction. Maybe we don't disagree. In my mind, I'm like, I want a CEO focused on the the vision of the business. Where are we going long term?
Alex Judd:Especially if they're the owner because they have intent in their head about that. Absolutely. The culture of the business, the overall, like, shared values and behaviors of the team. Yep. Just again, because if they if they don't drive that, they're gonna be bitter and resentful about what they end up with.
Chris Prenovost:Yep.
Alex Judd:And then the profitability of the business and the leadership team if they don't have an integrator and they don't have an integrator model. Well, I guess, first of all, do you agree with that? Does that fall under the CEO umbrella?
Chris Prenovost:Yes. If they don't have the COO or integrator in place. Yes. If they have that, then the profitability should probably live with that person.
Alex Judd:For sure. And CEO is probably focused on revenue?
Chris Prenovost:Yes. Yeah. Generally speaking, until they've got a somebody who can come over and and head of sales or marketing, then that should be handed off and the CEO is no longer accountable for that. Yeah. Then I typically would say that we we talked about being the most critical outcome.
Chris Prenovost:Right? The what's the singular measurable that you would look at for every person on the bus that would define success for that seat? Yeah. And if you were to think about if you were gonna if you were gonna go live on a beach and hire somebody to come in and be the CEO of Path for Growth, what
Alex Judd:would I might.
Chris Prenovost:I you know. Liked it in Phoenix.
Alex Judd:I freaking love it in Phoenix. Yeah. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.
Chris Prenovost:But what would you measure to tell you that that person is achieving the results?
Alex Judd:If I was hiring the CEO, you're yeah. Saying Sure. I would hire or my critical outcome to use your language would be revenue. And then for the COO, if we were going to hire that role, it would be profitability, right? So
Chris Prenovost:for the CEO, we generally look at what's the enterprise value. Okay.
Alex Judd:So the valuation of the business as a whole?
Chris Prenovost:Correct. Because if you're the owner of the business, think about just like owning a stock. Right? You want that stock value to increase over time. It's the same thing for a privately held business.
Alex Judd:And then the thought process behind especially if someone's in that integrator position, we're using US language now. If someone's in that I won't hold that against you. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
Alex Judd:Hopefully, they won't either. So so the critical outcome for that COO, the thought process on that main profitability is they have direct control over both our systems around revenue, but then also about how we're managing and attending to our expenses. That right?
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. They've gotta maintain gross profitability and as well as control the expense side of the equation.
Alex Judd:Okay. Yeah. Excellent. So I guess the area that you maybe even double clicked into then is the CEO role in particular. You're saying, man, if they if their background and their bread and butter is sales and marketing, then beyond those core areas of vision, culture, the leadership team being held accountable if we don't have an integrator or something like that, It's like, want them for a period of time to be focused on the sales and marketing in the business.
Alex Judd:If they're more financial oriented, we're not gonna twist their arm and try and get them to be a salesman. So it's almost like, especially in that gap between operator and CEO, you're basically saying, like, go to where your strengths are. That's not your full time job, but that is probably part of where you should be spending your time. Does that feel right?
Chris Prenovost:Definitely. It's part of the we'll call it the flavor, the spice you're gonna add to to cause you still need to to be accountable for all those things, right? The strategy, the the overall vision and culture of the organization. But what's your angle gonna be on it? Right?
Chris Prenovost:Are you gonna take an angle, a slant towards operations? Right? Are you a really good operation or, person? Are you really good finance or or sales? Those are really the three buckets that are you know, make up most businesses.
Chris Prenovost:Sure.
Alex Judd:You said leadership team as soon as possible. Mhmm. Especially in those early stages where you're like, this is all on me right now. Yep. I need to start getting other people on board.
Alex Judd:What are qualifications for a leadership team member at that stage of business?
Chris Prenovost:So in that earlier 2 to 5,000,000 range
Alex Judd:That sounds
Chris Prenovost:right. Right in there. Yeah. So as I mentioned, first and foremost, it's mission and values aligned. Yeah.
Chris Prenovost:Right? They've got to fit the overall purpose of the organization. Okay? I I care more about them than I do skill set because I don't know about you, I'm sure you've had lots of clients who've done this, but I hired a lot of people based off of experience and skills and then they came in and they didn't fit our culture. Yeah.
Chris Prenovost:Right? And that's just, that's a non starter. So once you get that alignment, then you've got to start looking at strategic ability to solve problems. Right? So not only can they block and tackle and do the daily things because at 2 to $5,000,000, it's a smaller team still.
Chris Prenovost:So they've got to be able to do some of the daily operational things, but they also have to be able to say, hey, I'm dealing with the same problem over and over here. I need to do something to fix this. Right? What's the process? What's what's the system that's broken?
Chris Prenovost:What's the improvement that we need to make? So I get out of this, you know, whack a mole game I'm playing over here.
Alex Judd:Do you think that for someone to be on a leadership team at this stage like, I noticed a critical distinction in my first two years of business whenever we were I was doing hiring for the first time, and I was like, there is a radical difference between someone that can manage a system, that has already been created versus someone that can build and then manage a system based on the need. Do you think the latter is necessary for someone to play a role in the leadership team?
Chris Prenovost:Somebody's gotta build a system.
Alex Judd:Yeah.
Chris Prenovost:Right? So now this might be again small team, you're probably still wearing lots of hats as the owner, founder, CEO. You may come down and build the system. Yeah. Right?
Chris Prenovost:And then hand it off to your operations person. You may come down and build the system and hand it to your marketing team. Right? But if you don't have that skill set or if you don't want to do that part or if it's not a good use of your time, then somebody else has to build that thing. Yeah.
Chris Prenovost:And you just mentioned be able to build and then maintain the system. That's a hard person to find.
Alex Judd:It's a very hard person
Chris Prenovost:to find.
Alex Judd:Do you think it's necessary? Are that, like, to I I actually think what we're talking about right now might be why businesses stall out around that, like Uh-huh. 1.5 to three to 4,000,000. It is so hard to make that jump. And I think what we're talking about right now, it might be part of the reason.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. I think I think so. I think there's two things at play here. One, it's the the person who can build a system and the person who can effectively efficiently run-in a system and improve it. They're not always the same type of just hardwiring.
Chris Prenovost:Right? The second thing that I think that a lot of people just get stuck on and and you've alluded to this already is that integrator COO spot. So many times I will see the CEO, the founder trying to sit in the both seats, CEO and COO and that is a really hard place to be. You want to try and get out of that as quickly as you can. I would much rather see, you know, the operations director also being the COO or the finance person also being the COO at least in an interim until we have enough revenue and profitability to be able to put the right person in that seat.
Alex Judd:Yeah, it's interesting because if you do make that shift especially at, you know, two to 3,000,000 top line, if you're making that shift and you're saying someone else is gonna basically, the organization's gonna report up to the integrator or the COO, and then the integrator is gonna report to the CEO visionary. Like you're basically making a bet on this structure is gonna help us generate the revenue to be able to pay for the structure that we're establishing. Most
Chris Prenovost:of the time CEOs are horrible at accountability. Yeah. Yeah. Right? It's just it's part of what makes us and I'm a CEO, I can say this, right?
Chris Prenovost:It's part of what makes us strong. It's part of our secret sauce is the things that we bring to the table also make us weak at accountability usually.
Alex Judd:How does horrible at accountability actually show up? Like what does that practically look like?
Chris Prenovost:Oh, the number one thing I would say is probably, unclear expectations. Yeah. And I'm I'm a big believer that most of the things that we are frustrated with in our businesses are the result of having unclear expectations upfront.
Alex Judd:Yeah. You and I agree on them.
Chris Prenovost:The second part of it is after the expectations because I actually do a pretty good job, I think my team may tell you differently, of setting expectations, but it's a systematic inspection of those expectations following and, you know, making sure you're getting the results and course correcting along the way. That's I fall flat, completely flat there.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. So we operate with a integrator, visionary integrator model for it was actually inspired by spending time with you and your company that we did that. Zach I mean, I'm still like, Zach's fingerprints are all over our business.
Alex Judd:I'm still so grateful for that guy to this day because we wouldn't be where we are without him. But one of the things that I noticed is a key distinction between Zach and I in terms of our leadership style is, like, he could go into a one on one meeting with someone. They're all green on their, what we call, success statements, which is their, like, critical outcomes that they're responsible for. And he would just be like, okay. It's all good.
Alex Judd:Great meeting. Thanks. And it'd be like a ten, fifteen minute meeting.
Chris Prenovost:Yep.
Alex Judd:For me, I'm like, there's always something to talk about. We can improve everything. I've got all these ideas of things we can talk about.
Chris Prenovost:Yep.
Alex Judd:And it's like realizing that, like, my ability to generate ideas and give feedback on existing things way exceeds people's ability to execute. And and that's not that's a reflection of me, not of the people. Right? And so recognizing the having a little bit of a stabilizing force
Chris Prenovost:Yep.
Alex Judd:Is really helpful. So the state I mean, building in public, the stage that we're at right now is I'm constantly coaching myself right now. I'm like, dude, when you go into these one on ones, your team is great. They care so much. Like the people we have on board are cultural rock stars.
Alex Judd:It's like, I need to be a stabilizing force in those one on one meetings and not just be the idea guy every time we show up to one on one. It's hard.
Chris Prenovost:What do you think it does to your team when it's never good enough?
Alex Judd:Well, I we should bring them here. Yeah. I mean, and what's interesting about that is, you know, this could be a broader, longer conversation is, like, I'm a three on the Enneagram. Right? So and the one of the driving motives, dark shadow side motives of a three on the Enneagram is never enough.
Alex Judd:Right? And it's not, I'm not doing enough. It's I am not enough. And what's crazy that I've learned in leadership, it's one of the things that is like, man, I I smack in the face look in the mirror is like, your standards never stay with you. Your standards always cascade.
Alex Judd:So it's like, if I'm feeling not enough Right. Then my team will experience that as well. And so what's I mean, it's one of the reasons why I love leadership as one of the greatest growth honestly, spiritual growth incubators is because I have to be firm in my identity for me to be able to lead well. And if I'm not firm in that identity, other people are gonna be on the other side of that insecurity.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. Absolutely. I'm wired the same way. Right? I'm I'm an eight on the enneagram, but I'm a minor three.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. So it's that never enough muscle like this keeps coming in and, you know, you if the goal was to sell a $100,000 this month, you got an account manager in there who just sold a 110, you're like, great, but it could have been a 120. Right? And, you know, we see this sometimes, we ask everybody to rate our meetings when we're done, one to one to 10 scale. And you'll have some people who say, oh, it was a nine.
Chris Prenovost:It's like, great. Well, great. What could get you to a 10? And then no, was a great meeting. Like, well then say it's a 10.
Alex Judd:Right? What the heck?
Chris Prenovost:And and, you know, Michael Ureth, the founder of Next Level Growth wrote a blog on this recently and it's just so good. It's like, you know, what do you think that does to the to the psychology, to the motivation, to the morale of that person who, you know, if they go eight for eight from the free throw line, they literally could not have made another shot, they they should get a 10. Right? And if we go in there and say, well, yeah, but that one wasn't a swish. Mhmm.
Chris Prenovost:Right? Are you actually in in our minds, sometimes we think we're motivating them by saying they could do better. But what that actually ends up doing in the long run is demotivating them because they they start to take on the mindset of, well, no matter how hard I try, no matter how good I do, they're not gonna be happy.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Winning is an impossibility Right. For them. Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Judd:Okay. So we we've deviated a little bit, but we talked about mission and values alignment being core for those early leadership team members. What else are you looking for? You you oh, we also said manage and build systems. Yep.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. They've gotta be able to manage and build the systems. They've gotta be good people leaders. Yeah. I I mean, this is something I think so often we overlook, but they they have to be motivational.
Chris Prenovost:They'd be good communicators. They gotta be inspiring to their team. And I'm not talking about like running out during the all hands meeting, you know, with a cape on and fireworks going off or anything, but they've gotta be able to clearly articulate the message to the team. Why? Right?
Chris Prenovost:Because a lot of the times in business, the why is the most important part. It's way more important than the what or the how. Mhmm. Right? And especially in entrepreneurial worlds where we have a lot of freedom in how we do things, we're not bound by corporate policies and all these other things that drive people like you and me nuts, but you want to make sure they understand why we're doing them and some of the principles and boundaries that we play within so that they can properly cascade that down to their team and lead their team well.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. And then it seems to me as though there's gotta be the qualification of, like, they actually want to be a leader on the leadership team.
Chris Prenovost:Absolutely.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Which when you are approaching someone and saying, hey. We're at the stage of business now where I wanna involve other people in the strategy, the vision of where we're going, and I wanna expand this circle a little bit. What are you casting for them in terms of expectations from them as now a member of the leadership team?
Chris Prenovost:You know, I think it's the same things we talked about there. Right? You've gotta have your accountability chart seat drawn. Sure. Right?
Chris Prenovost:And it's gotta be crystal clear. The way we teach the accountability chart is as you move down the levels of the organization, we use verbs to describe what we call our obsessions. Right? So you've got your your mission for each seat. It's called the MMOs.
Chris Prenovost:The mission, well, in one sentence, what what's winning look like for the seat? The MCO, the most critical outcome, how am I gonna measure success for that seat? And then the obsessions, what are the things I want that person obsessing about while they're in pursuit of that mission? As we go down the levels of the organization, the obsessions all start with verbs. Okay?
Chris Prenovost:And it's own at the top. Right? They own the sales and marketing processes, playbooks, the execution and the outcomes. Okay? At the manager level, they might drive the process playbooks.
Chris Prenovost:At the individual contributor level, now they're following or executing the process playbooks.
Alex Judd:Own, drive. Well, for me what's the difference between owning and driving.
Chris Prenovost:Sure. So driving means I'm gonna take what you give me and I'm gonna make sure my team is following that thing. Distribute the work. And then there's something wrong, say we're hitting a a sticking point, the process isn't giving us the result we want, I'm gonna cascade that up to the person who wants it. Okay.
Chris Prenovost:Okay.
Alex Judd:And they're not responsible for coming up with, hey, here's what we're going after. Correct. They're responsible for, hey, here's how we're going after it.
Chris Prenovost:Correct. Okay. The own part of it is one, you make sure it exists. Yeah. Right?
Chris Prenovost:Because sometimes it doesn't. You make sure it's up to date, documented, accessible. Right? Especially around processes. I see sometimes, oh, they live on a server.
Chris Prenovost:Which folder? Right? And they're all it's just a scattering. So you want to make sure they exist and they're they're accessible. You want to make sure they're up to date, they're properly trained and executed on and that they are actually giving us the results we want.
Chris Prenovost:Because I've seen so many times where we have a process and if we follow the process, we don't get the result we want. Well, we got to go back and change the process. Right? It's up to somebody to to throw that flag and say, hey, we need to we need to update this thing. Mhmm.
Alex Judd:So, basically, they need to embody the mission and values. They they need to understand what they're owning or driving as it relates to their role in the business. Mhmm. Any other expectations that you're painting for them to be a part of the leadership team?
Chris Prenovost:You know, I think the the other part that is really, really important is the humility that comes in. Right? They've gotta be able to take the feedback. But part of that is they also have to be able to dish it out. Right?
Chris Prenovost:So I look at the the the leadership team. Yes. There's usually that COO, that that integrator, the second in command. There's that seat that is theoretically the one who holds everybody accountable, but how much more effective is it if everybody's holding each other accountable? Right?
Chris Prenovost:And that leadership team, when you can build that level of cohesion where we can all call each other out when we're out of bounds or when we're not delivering on our expectations or we're maybe we're not being completely forthright or something, that is where the the magic can really, really happen.
Alex Judd:Yeah. So, again, if someone is going from operator to CEO, they're they're adding in this leadership team element. What is the biggest thing? It's not like they're gonna snap their fingers and it's like, man, we made it. What is the biggest thing that they need internally as the leader or owner of the business in order to traverse that gap?
Alex Judd:Like, what's the character trait for people that do it well that they have in common or maybe there's multiple?
Chris Prenovost:Yeah, there's probably a lot to it. I would say they've got to make sure that they have the humility again to understand they can't do it all themselves. Right? That's going to be that decision point of, okay, we got to do something else here. But being able to let go.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. Right? That ability, like I said, like I was I was saying earlier, it's like, if I want something done a very specific way, right? If if that is how I'm going to communicate it, I have to be able to say why. Like, why does it have to be done this way?
Chris Prenovost:Why does why is something that's a little bit different not work? And sometimes there's valid reasons for that. Sometimes it's a legacy thing that one thing happened years ago and that's why we don't do it that way anymore because that one time, that one thing, don't know that's a valid reason to to put a requirement in place. Right? And if we can help them understand that if you can let go of it and if they can get it to 90% of the way there, and you might have to polish up the remaining 10% or whatever, But how much more capacity do you have now as a leader when you're not having to put a 100% of your time into that one thing?
Alex Judd:One of the things that stands out to me with regard to this is, like, our mission is we just help impact driven leaders step into who they were created to be so that others benefit, and God is glorified.
Chris Prenovost:I love that mission.
Alex Judd:Well, thank you. I'm glad you're a part of it, man. And just one of the things that I constantly reflect on is, like, one of the reasons why there's nothing on the planet right now that I would rather be doing is, like, business, especially small business, and owning or leading in a small business, it's like, it will force you. It is a forcing function of you will have to become more patient. You'll have to become more humble.
Alex Judd:You'll have to become more courageous. You'll have to become more creative. You're gonna have to become better at people, or you fail. Like, or it doesn't work. Like, and that's really that's really the decision that you're making.
Alex Judd:And it's like, man, whenever we actually start to embrace it, like, this is so hard. This is so uncomfortable. And it's like, that's when you know you're in the sweet spot, man. And it's like, you're that's where all the growth comes from. It's one of the things I love about it.
Chris Prenovost:Yeah. I I don't think that you know, we talk about entrepreneurial freedom being that fifth stage. Right? Yeah. But I don't know that it's comfortable.
Alex Judd:It's not interesting.
Chris Prenovost:It's because you are, you're dealing with a whole different set of issues at that point. Right? You could be looking at acquisitions, you could be looking at different types of growth, right? There's a lot of other things that come into play and it just comes back to what do you want? Like, what's your why?
Chris Prenovost:Right? Is it going to bring you closer to your purpose and your mission as an organization? Which way are we gonna go here?
Alex Judd:Yeah. I want us to have further conversation on this that we're gonna put in Base Camp for Path for Growth members just on some of the gray and, like, the nuances. We were talking on our hike earlier of, like, man, especially when it comes to developing leaders, like, books make it seem black and white, and a lot of times, there's shades of gray. So I want us to talk about navigating those nuances. But to end this conversation, what I would like to do is say you're having coffee with someone
Chris Prenovost:K.
Alex Judd:And they're telling you, Chris, like, I am freaking exhausted. Like, I am done. And I am literally thinking of, like, this business is successful. And I'm thinking, I kinda wanna just go get a job is what I'm thinking right now. And they're at that decision making point.
Alex Judd:How do you respond to that person?
Chris Prenovost:First, I tell them I know what the heck they're talking about. Right? Because I've been there and I ask them what they want to do. Like, do you really want to go get a job? Because some people do.
Chris Prenovost:Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Sell your business, shut it down, hand it to somebody else, whatever you want do with it. Go punch a clock to a nine to five. There's nothing wrong with that.
Chris Prenovost:But if you want to fix your business, here's the path. Right? There there are certain things we can implement very quickly that will yield a very quick ROI. Right? And you will see big changes pretty quickly.
Chris Prenovost:The interesting thing, like I said, they're not some sexy new tool that we're going to teach them that's going to change the world, but it's the disciplined execution over time. It's just like losing weight, right? You you want to get fit, you want to lose weight, you want to be strong, it you can now I guess you can go get Ozempic, right? So we'll put that on the side, right? But besides that, right?
Chris Prenovost:There's not some secret thing, but if you eat right, you exercise pretty regularly, you're gonna be in good shape. The exact same things are true, the fundamentals of operating a business. If you put the right structure in place, you put the clear expectations in place, drive accountability, have clear measurables, have the right, again, controls around finances and all those things, you're probably gonna be okay in the long run. Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Man, well, I appreciate this conversation, and we'll do, round two inside Basecamp. Thanks, Chris.
Chris Prenovost:Sounds good.
Alex Judd:Well, there you have it. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode. If you want any of the information or resources that we mentioned, that's all in the show notes. Hey, before you go, could I ask you for one quick favor? Could you subscribe, rate, and review this podcast episode?
Alex Judd:Your feedback is what helps our team engage in a sequence of never ending improvement. We wanna amplify what's valuable to you and obviously reduce or even remove the things that aren't. Also, you leaving a positive review is what helps us connect with, build trust with, and serve other leaders around the country. So thanks in advance for helping us out on that front. Are you a leader that wants to grow your business in a healthy way, serve people exceptionally well, and glorify God in the process?
Alex Judd:Go to pathforgrowth.com to get more information about our community of impact driven leaders and schedule a call with our team. Hey, thank you so much to the Path for Growth team, Kyle Cummings and the crew at Podcircle, and the remarkable leaders that are actively engaged in the Path for Growth community. Y'all are the people that make this podcast possible. Y'all know this. We're rooting for you.
Alex Judd:We're praying for you. We wanna see you win. Remember, my strength is not for me. Your strength is not for you. Our strength is for service.
Alex Judd:Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
