How to Lead Through a Major Mess
If you find yourself in a mess, the thing that you are most tempted to avoid is probably the thing you most need to confront. And the people you are least likely to talk to are the people you probably most likely need to talk to. It's a different flavor of discomfort. It's not just like, oh, this is hard work. I don't like doing it.
Alex Judd:This is like, I am afraid that the result of me doing this is gonna reveal I don't have what it takes. Okay. So as a business and particularly as a coaching team, we are all about helping leaders build a healthy, growing, profitable business that isn't dependent on the owner to make a positive impact. And it's so tempting and even popular to believe that, like, oh, once I commit to doing that, it is an up into the right journey, with no pitfalls, deviations, sidetracks, or drama. And and that is just such a false expectation.
Alex Judd:And there are certain times and periods in every business owner and leader's trajectory, even if that is a really clear goal and focus of theirs, where there's no better word to characterize what they experience other than, like, this is a mess. And we I mean, all three of us have been on one on one conversations where literally the phrase has said, this is just an absolute mess. And sometimes even more colorful language than that is what would say. But, Kyle, you know, in some ways, I I think we would say unfortunately, but also, you know, there's been a lot of redemptive pieces to this story, I think. There's a part of your leadership story that you would just I mean, you would look back at that and then be like, there was a period where it's like, that was a mess.
Alex Judd:I'd love for you to share some of that context because that informed, the principles that we're going to walk through in this episode.
Kyle Guemmer:A 100%. And and I would say, especially in the work of coaching, the more lines you draw, the more standards you have, the more it becomes clear and clear what is black and white. And when there are things that are black and white, it creates opportunities to lead courageously or not, or hold to the values and beliefs or not. And and that's really where my story probably in a lot of ways, like, was the crux of it is is I think in a lot of ways, we were implementing the fundamentals. We were seeing growth.
Kyle Guemmer:We did have a healthy team. And as you create that, as you have that momentum, as those standards are being clarified, there are things that become very obvious that are very, very hard. And in this specific situation, it became very obvious that what got you here won't get you there in a specific role in the organization, a marketing role in the organization where the person that got us to where we were was no longer the person that could get us to where we were trying to go, and that required a really hard decision, required holding to values that we had clarified and documented. And when we were unwilling to do that, it created a mess. And and that mess specifically for us was most of that leadership team is no longer with the organization.
Kyle Guemmer:People left immediately on the backside of some of those decisions, and there was turmoil, fracturedness, unhealth that affected customers, affected our team, affected cash flow, all of these things on the backside of a decision that was made that created a mess.
Alex Judd:And in some ways, you weren't the person or the leader that made that decision, but you you did have to decide what you were going to do in terms of responding to the decision that was made. And this is why you're now a a coach. You coach business owners and leaders on our team, but at this time, I was your one on one coach and you were you were one of my first ever one on one coaching customers. And when all this was going on, you and I had worked with each other for over a year and a half, I think. And I just remember one of the things in the midst of the mess that you and I would repeatedly come back to is what are the principles at play in this situation?
Alex Judd:And, you know, if I'm thinking about the decisions that you did make in response to everything that happened, so many of them ended up being principle based decisions. Yeah. So I'd love for you to speak to why is it then when you find yourself in a mess, principles are the tool or principle based thinking is the skill that you need to lean on as a leader?
Kyle Guemmer:Yeah. Well, principles are concisely worded statements of truth that transcend circumstances. And so there's pieces of that that are really important. Number one, there's truth. And so when when you know truth or decide what is true or you see truth, like, you you you see that and that affects the way that you live.
Kyle Guemmer:And then there's the transcending circumstances part. And why is that so important? Because hard circumstances are really emotional. Hard circumstances create ambiguity and fog and nuance where it's really hard to find your footing. And when you have those principles, those statements of truth, they they ground you, and they allow you to cut through that fog or see clearly and effectively make decisions that aren't totally driven by circumstances or emotions.
Alex Judd:Matt, anything you'd add just on the value of principle based thinking or coaching in the midst of a mess before we jump into these six particular principles?
Matt Aiken:I think we should jump
Alex Judd:in. Okay. I appreciate you for attending to our time, Matt. Okay. The the first one is a relational principle.
Alex Judd:You are responsible to people. You are not responsible for people. Man, if we were to create a greatest hits of our, you know, three times a week community coaching call that we do with within Path for Growth, I would say this principle is towards the top of the list. Why is it so critical to and important to remember this when you're in a mess?
Matt Aiken:First of all, it's at the top of the list because it's really hard. And we can't we have to remind ourselves of this over and over and over again. As a coach, I'm responsible to my customers. I'm not responsible for them. I I I can't take on that kind of weight.
Matt Aiken:And and so if we're dealing with that, if we're reminding ourselves of this principle, then then, you know, we need to be reminding our our customers of it too over and over and over again.
Alex Judd:And I think to that note, Kyle, one of the things you said as we were kinda game planning the content for this episode is you said, it is possible to put too much weight on the scale of you're not responsible for people. Like, you you cannot control what they do or the outcomes they get. And one of the things you kind of really championed was like, okay. But you should remember what you're responsible to. Yeah.
Alex Judd:Explain or elaborate a little bit on, like, why you're passionate about that for leaders.
Kyle Guemmer:Yeah. Why we talk about this principle so much is because we're dealing with impact driven leaders. And what do impact driven leaders do? They care deeply for the people that they're doing life with, that they're serving with, that they're serving. And it's it's really hard to get those things screwed up because we want them to succeed.
Kyle Guemmer:We we see the best in people. We want the best for people. But if we over leverage to that side, we become too emotional, too attached, and we don't know how to have proper standards or boundaries, healthy boundaries in relation to those people. But there is a lot that we are responsible to in regards to the people that we serve. We're we are responsible to what does success look like in your role?
Kyle Guemmer:Mhmm. Why does this organization exist? What do we stand for? Where are we going? How is this going?
Kyle Guemmer:And how are you doing? And so there's there's so much vision in that. There's so much clarity in that. There's so much accountability in that. There's hard conversations that are in that.
Kyle Guemmer:There's consistency in that. And and those are the things that create simplicity. They create clarity. They create structure. They create boundaries.
Kyle Guemmer:And if we're so off in the well, I want I'm for them. I want what's best for them. We get, I would say, distracted and lose our actual effectiveness in what we are responsible to in regards to whatever the situation is, the leaders we're serving with, the customer, or or people that are on our team.
Alex Judd:Yeah. It's interesting to think about this principle through the lens of the situation story that you laid out at the beginning of this episode because it's like you cannot take responsibility for the decisions that other people make, but the the minute that someone else makes a decision, you can take responsibility for your response, and you are actually you are responsible to respond, and you can't just the ball is in your court now, and it's like, what are you gonna do for this? And it can be really easy as a leader to say like, well, they did that, and I'm not responsible for what they did, but then to simultaneously incorporate into that an abdication of responsibility to respond to what was done that was out of your control. And that's incorrect. Right?
Alex Judd:So, yeah, there's a distinguishing nature between responsible to and responsible for, and that is truth. And when we bring that simple truth to messy circumstances, we start to identify what are boundaries, what can I control, what can't I control? Okay. Let's go to number two. This is the second principle.
Alex Judd:Your work is not who you are. Your work is where you serve. Again, we say this a lot in office hours, on one on one coaching calls, and certainly here on the podcast. I wanna know why is this particular principle so poignant and so helpful whenever you are in a mess? Whenever you're you're like this thing, I I don't even know where to begin because there's so many variables at play.
Alex Judd:Why do we need to remember this principle?
Matt Aiken:Well, you're already in a emotionally vulnerable spot. Mhmm. Right? You're you're in a a season of increased stress, a season of increased challenge and difficulty. I love when I sit down at my desk and it's clean and organized and know where everything is.
Matt Aiken:I feel so effective for my day. When I sit down amidst clutter on my day like, it's harder. Just think about even in that. Right? Even in the midst of clutter in your home or clutter in your office, like, things get harder.
Matt Aiken:Now think about organizational mess. Like, things are hard and you're having to wrestle through my you know, your part of it. What what you either contributed to it or the clarity or unclarity you have of how you're gonna get out of it. And so you gotta remember that your identity is not wrapped up in results. You know, if if you're a Christian, your, you know, your identity is wrapped up in Christ.
Matt Aiken:Right? And we'll talk about that later in one of the other ones as it relates to truth. But you you've gotta understand that what's happening, this mess that I'm in, it's not me. I'm not a mess. And I can impact change or I can affect change in this mess.
Matt Aiken:I can step in and serve by cleaning up some of the mess. Yeah.
Alex Judd:And, I mean, because the minute you start saying, I'm in a mess and therefore I am a mess, which is literally like I mean, I can literally hear someone saying this, ugh, I'm just a mess. And and you better watch your language because how is a mess gonna lead us out of a mess? Right? You might feel messy as well, and there might be things that are disorganized. I would encourage you to start with those things if you're gonna lead other people out of this situation, but do not incorporate that as part of your identity.
Alex Judd:Kyle, what would you like to add on this principle?
Kyle Guemmer:Yeah. Belief drives behavior, and then a principle upon a principle here is effort never sustainably exceeds belief. And so if I believe I'm a mess, my effort to work out of that is not gonna exceed my belief in what the actual cause is. And also, if we are attaching who we are to results, just be bought into, like, your life is gonna be a roller coaster because life is not always up and to the right. And if I am my results, my life is going to be chaotic.
Kyle Guemmer:And the hope of the gospel and the hope of of I think what we get to do as impact driven leaders and the mission of our organization is like, man, you have an identity that is in the Lord, and because of that, you have responsibility in all of these areas. And so if I am not attending to that responsibility, that is a stewardship conversation, not an identity conversation. And if it's a stewardship conversation, I can be rooted in my identity. I can understand the truth of what that means. There can be repentance in that, and then there can be vision and hope on the other side of that even in really hard circumstances.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. The the other thing that, you know, we know is true is that sometimes chaos at work creates chaos at home. And that is, you know, I know a lot of leaders where they just say, I'm not gonna allow that to happen. And why? Because, like, my work is where I serve, and, like, that Yeah.
Alex Judd:That's where I go to work, and, like, I'm not going to allow that to mess with my marriage. Right? And because that's not who I am, and so I'm gonna leave the mess at work, and I'm gonna go home, and I'm gonna be a great mom or dad. I'm gonna be a world class husband or wife. I'm I'm gonna be present.
Alex Judd:I'm gonna be able to enjoy my life outside of work and and not just bring the mess along with me. And I think that's why it's helpful to distinguish between the two. Okay. The third one is kind of a meta principle that hits on the value of principle based thinking and leading in the middle of a mess, and its exposure to truth guards against insanity. What stands out here as really important to understand and remember if you're in the midst of chaos?
Matt Aiken:Yeah. I I have been in a mess in a business for multiple years at a time. A long mess. Yeah. There's a lot of laughter because there's extra context that doesn't need to be on the podcast.
Matt Aiken:But I've been in a long mess, multiple years. And
Alex Judd:I I
Matt Aiken:can just tell you, I know this principle is true. It kept me from insanity by being in the scripture every single day, by journaling the Psalms every day and saying, okay, what what do I see in how God relates to people? Because, I mean, what is the gospel that God made a way amidst our mess of sin? And so the the idea is like, okay, if I'm gonna let circumstances and if I'm gonna let new instances or a new legal doc come through and it's gonna it's gonna shake me and be like, oh, I gotta go deal with this now or how can I even go and and be more effective at work when I'm having to deal with this? It's like, if you're not grounded in what is true, not only about yourself, not only about reality and God's calling upon your life, but on the circumstances of what's going on, you're gonna go crazy.
Matt Aiken:Mhmm. And then everything else is gonna devolve. It's gonna spiral. It's gonna it's gonna snowball out of effect. And so, you know, truth for for me just is this anchoring rod that I it's not going anywhere.
Matt Aiken:It's true. Mhmm. And everything else can pivot around that. But if I can grab and hold on to that, it does keep you from going insane and then keeps your wife from going insane, listening to you going right? It just That's right.
Matt Aiken:It it it our instability, our you know, this insanity impacts everyone around us.
Alex Judd:Yeah.
Matt Aiken:And so we we Speaking hypothetically.
Alex Judd:Hypothetically. Hypothetically. Yeah.
Matt Aiken:Yeah.
Alex Judd:I I mean, I think it stands out as true is, like, the times that are most chaotic, most uncertain, most predictable are those are the times when idols are most tempting, I think. And an idol is something that will always take you further than you ever intended to go. And it, you know, it just seems like, you know, everyone's down at the bottom of Mount Sinai, and the adults leave the building. Right? Like, Moses leaves for not very long.
Alex Judd:And then he comes back, and things have devolved into chaos. Why? Because they let go of truth. Right? And and they they grabbed onto a substitute.
Alex Judd:And how often do we do that is we, like, we we relinquish truth. We don't hold on to the rhythms that keep us exposed to truth, and it's crazy where your mind and heart can go the minute you make that decision. So I think it's why, for a leader that's in chaos, Romans twelve two is like, do not be conformed to the ways of this world, but be transformed at the renewing of your mind. Renewing is an active tense verb. Like, we're we're constantly doing this.
Alex Judd:That by testing, you may discern the will of god, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Like, you don't lose sight of what we're aiming for, which is what is good, acceptable, and perfect because that's the will of god. So, Kyle, would love to ask you, in addition to anything else you would add there is like, okay, exposure to truth guards against insanity, that can that can feel like a very theoretical principle. Like, what does that practically look like? And and for you and your situation, like, how do you make sure you're staying in truth and you're not going crazy whenever your situation is crazy?
Kyle Guemmer:I'll speak to myself a little bit. I I think I got to experience this with one of my customers here, and and you were talking about idols, which I think is really good. I I think another place where this is so important is in regards to shame. And I think shame exists in the shadows, and shame ex like, feeds on generalities. Mhmm.
Kyle Guemmer:And truth is light, and truth is hyperspecific. And truth is about something that is, I would say the the truth of the gospel, is or the truth of the Bible is, like, is about someone that isn't you that has then given you an identity. And I had one of my customers who was in a mess, and some of that was self inflicted, some of it was circumstantial, and sent me a message really just in this cycle of shame of, like, I don't I don't even deserve to be in coaching. I'm not doing I'm not taking advantage of it. I'm not doing this well.
Kyle Guemmer:I'm a failure. I've I've been in this situation now where I'm back in the business now two out of the last three years. And in some ways, that was true. Like, he did have to go back into the business two out of the last three years, but the story or the the lies, if we were to go against truth, of that was creating insanity. Because I just literally sent him a couple minute voice mail of like, dude, you are have a healthier marriage than you've ever had.
Kyle Guemmer:You are leading your family by getting involved in a community and serving in that community where you weren't two years ago. You have made two insane hires, that are gonna help steward the business better than anything that's come to this point. You are more profitable than you've ever been. And, yeah, you're in the business today, but that is not the the the whole story. And so, man, to just be able to exhort and encourage and, like, speak that truth over him, like, that immediate response from him was like, man, this is why I need coaching.
Kyle Guemmer:But it wasn't even coaching. This is why you need truth.
Alex Judd:Yeah. That's right.
Kyle Guemmer:And so I think that was for me. I think you were that for me in so many ways of of, man, I don't know up from down right now, and I love this place. I love this mission. I love these people, and I don't think I can continue to work here because this has compromised my values, the stated values of the organization. And what the heck is all this for?
Kyle Guemmer:Why are we trying, and why are we fighting so hard if this is what we're gonna do? And and I think you, were were a source of that truth to stabilize and ground and help create clarity for me in the midst of a mess.
Matt Aiken:Yeah. Could I, jump in with a a truth that speaks to your circumstance and my circumstance from James one? Mhmm. Right? If you talk about truth guarding against insanity, you know, what what does it say at the beginning of James?
Matt Aiken:Count it all joy when you encounter trials, when you encounter a mess, when you encounter tribulation. Why? Because it will produce something in you. The the the the spiritual reality that the gospel allows us to gain benefit from a mess. If we let it.
Matt Aiken:If we preach the gospel to ourself and we renew our minds, you were talking about with with Romans 12, like, we can actually get a benefit from these messes by encountering the trials and let them produce in us endurance and steadfastness. Yeah. And so you talk about, like, the truth that the gospel allows us to endure, not just endure, but to gain benefit from it is so powerful. And it's like your situation, my situation, so many situations from our customers. It's like we're in trials and they're gifts to us.
Matt Aiken:Let's remember that these trials and tribulations or or these issues, these challenges, these leadership situations where we need to step in and take responsibility, there are things that are gonna I'm a better leader today than I was.
Kyle Guemmer:100%.
Matt Aiken:Yeah. Absolutely. And I I failed a lot. And I'm a better leader because what? There's some truths that have guarded me from going down the the self deprecating spiral of insanity.
Alex Judd:Yeah. That's right. I mean, you know, if you believe the gospel, which our prayer is that you do, you what you actually believe is that the worst thing that has ever happened or that could ever happen in the history of the universe did happen. It happened, and it was redeemed to be the greatest thing that could happen in the history of the universe. You believe that if you believe the gospel.
Alex Judd:Yep. And so in light of that, who are you to say this mess can't be redeemed? The worst thing that could ever happen in the history of the universe was redeemed. You believe that. And so, that's the truth that you have to re immerse yourself in whenever you're encountering what really amounts to short term feelings, pain, or discomfort.
Alex Judd:What's really bad, I think, is when we make long term decisions out of short term feelings and just can be incredibly detrimental. Okay, let's go to number four. It's a Craig Groeschel quote that is absolutely a principle that's been invaluable in my leadership, and we use it all the time in coaching conversations. Every large problem in an organization was once a small problem that a leader failed to address. So why does this principle apply to leading through a mess?
Alex Judd:When we're in
Matt Aiken:the midst of a mess, we are cleaning up a big problem, and we have to be mindful that there's small problems also potentially prevailing the situation. And so, you know, just being one, we wanna get out of the mess. We want to be a leader who says, like, whether it's evaluated experience. Right? Hey.
Matt Aiken:I I failed to address this small accountability issue or I failed to define a little bit of unclarity in my core values. Like, one, okay, that was a small issue and now I'm I'm I'm dealing with this big issue. Okay. I'm gonna deal with this big issue and I have to remember that this is a rhythm and pattern of dealing with small issues before they become big issues. And so it kind of one, it says, okay.
Matt Aiken:I didn't make, like, this huge mistake. That's not what I'm worried about. That's not what I'm I'm I'm trying to prevent in the future. It's okay. Let's evaluate.
Matt Aiken:Oh, that's right. The the root of this was a couple of small things that have stacked and accrued and and snowballed in this bigger situation. So just kinda one, it it it can, in the right state of mind, help go like, okay. I'm gonna take a breath. That was a small problem I failed to address.
Matt Aiken:I'm gonna now deal with the big situation. I'm gonna deal with the mess I'm in, and I'm gonna commit to being excellent in the little things or to at least be to take initiative on the little things.
Alex Judd:Yeah. That's good. Something that stands out to me on the backside of what you just said is I can think of a handful of businesses that I know that found themselves in a mess, and these are businesses that are now wildly successful. The leader found themselves in a mess, and they had a look in the mirror moment and basically said, what are we doing? Like and and they used that mess as a means of overhauling the entire organization, like everything, not even just the specific department or or person or area or problem that was going on with the mess is they said, I'm going to I'm I'm going to basically do a renovation of this entire thing because there's something deeper even than just this this arena of chaos that we're experiencing.
Alex Judd:And so in some ways, it's like, I mean, if you're gonna if you're gonna, I mean, get muddy and messy and dirty and you're just gonna go in and start solving things, it's like, well, maybe we should rip the Band Aid off all at once and say, what are all the other small things that we just need to reset our standards and basically say we're we're gonna do a reset, and we're opting in for that right now. Kyle, what else would you add on this principle?
Kyle Guemmer:I think this is a redemptive and a reflective principle. And what I mean by that is it's an opportunity to reflect, and and Matt just talked about that. But it's also the redemptive side of, like, man, especially as I look at the situation we've been talking about with me that I went through several years ago, the biggest growth moments for myself personally were looking at all of these small little clues in my own leadership or or in the business that maybe it's like, man, if I would have addressed that in a different way or earlier on, this could have been avoided. Ultimately, how it happened and what took place was beyond my control, but, man, there's so much in that that I could, like, that I could learn still, and and there is so much of my growth and who I am today in the way that I lead, in the way that I serve my customers, and and serve in so many areas in my life that are direct reflections of things that I learned, those small problems that led to a big problem. It was maybe 50 small problems that led to this big, big mess.
Kyle Guemmer:But, man, if if I take the opportunity to learn, like, many of those things have been redeemed, and I'm a totally different person because of so many of those little things.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. Next principle, the greatest growth comes from the discomfort you fear, and we we probably contrast that against the discomfort you dislike. There's a lot of arenas this plays out. I think one of the arenas I've seen this play out a lot is when people end up in a financial mess, and and they are someone that would even self identify as not being good with numbers. Matt, I mean, you have a financial background.
Alex Judd:I'd just love to hear you elaborate on, like, leaders that you've worked with in the past, observed, or witnessed in the past. Like, how does that play out whenever leaders feel shame around their competency with regard to the finances, but that is the cause of the mess that they're in.
Matt Aiken:Yeah. When we are struggling through fear, what we're doing is often running to things we're competent in, running to things we know how to do, and avoiding, but we're we're avoiding at a cost. And so from a from a financial perspective, this can play out in, oh, we're you know, we haven't hit sales numbers two, three, four months in a row. I don't necessarily know how to address that. A leader might find themselves saying.
Matt Aiken:So instead of addressing that, I'm gonna go do this other thing. And so they're they're just delaying delaying delaying making the problem worse and worse and worse, giving to a bigger and bigger and bigger mess. And so, hey, what what do we need to do? We need to realize that, like, our growth individually, our growth as an organization requires us to step into our fear. It requires us to say, like, I don't know this.
Matt Aiken:I mean, how how vulnerable is that? Man, I mean, we the three of us, we we we get to spend a lot of time together in on situations like this. And I would I I'm sure. I know I love to look good in front of you guys. Right?
Matt Aiken:I love to say, I'm good at this or hey, here's here's something cool I've been thinking about. I I I have every bit of ego or or arrogance inside of me. And so I know just even in the comfort of friends, it's hard to step in and say, I don't know what I'm doing or I'm scared to go do that thing. That sentence, I mean, how often do we say that? And so the idea that we need to realize, we need to be able to actively talk about and bring forward what we don't want to admit to our closest friends, the people we trust, is what we're calling people to in this principle.
Matt Aiken:Like, that's it's a challenging thing. Yeah. But it's also the thing that we need to do to say, I'm going to step in and and review the p and l. I'm gonna look through my budget. I'm oh, I I don't like budgets, man.
Matt Aiken:That sounds challenging. I may have to, like, be held accountable to this. Someone else is gonna tell me what I can and can't spend with my money. It's like, oh, man. I that sounds scary.
Matt Aiken:What if I wanna do this thing? Many of our visionaries. Right? What if I wanna do this thing? And someone's gonna say no or I'm gonna have predecided no.
Matt Aiken:You start go through that start to go through that and you realize, like, what I need to do is label this. I need to say, I'm scared. I'm uncomfortable. This is not the what I thought I'd be dealing with. I wanna be doing these other things.
Matt Aiken:And that's gonna allow us ultimately to say, and I need to step into that. I need to take action. I need to take responsibility.
Alex Judd:Yeah. I you know, it kinda stands out that if you find yourself in a mess, the thing that you are most tempted to avoid is probably the thing you most need to confront, and the people you are least likely to talk to are the people you probably most likely need to talk to.
Matt Aiken:And
Alex Judd:that that is all discomfort, but that is like a my experience is it's a different flavor of discomfort. It's not just like, oh, I'm this is hard work. I don't like doing it. This is like, I am afraid that the result of me doing this is gonna reveal I don't have what it takes. And and, you know, maybe that's my fear.
Alex Judd:Maybe that's not other people's fear. You should define what your fear is and just be like, that's not refer back to principle three. That's not true. Right? And and the best leaders I know are the ones that don't have it's not that they don't have inadequacies.
Alex Judd:It's that they are so intimately aware of their inadequacies, and they're not afraid of them. They're willing to own them. Kyle, you're passionate about this principle.
Kyle Guemmer:Yeah. I'm I'm passionate about it because I find it quite convicting. So the greatest growth comes from the discomfort you fear. I have found myself personally, when I am in so called messes, the thing that got me into the mess is because I avoided the thing that was scary, and the thing that will get me out of the mess is doing the thing that scares me.
Alex Judd:Mhmm.
Kyle Guemmer:And I think it's just a very, very powerful and convicting question to even ask on a regular basis, and I do. It's like, what is the thing that I'm most scared of right now in the greatest growth that could happen in my personal life, my spiritual life, my whatever is is probably doing the thing that scares me most.
Alex Judd:Mhmm.
Kyle Guemmer:And it's a very convicting and very powerful, and it confronts this this reality of how much leadership requires courage. And what I have found with working with business owners is they know the things that they need to do. They're terrified to do those things. And if they can borrow some of my beliefs or if they can latch on to principle or a truth, it musters up that courage to do the thing, and there's so much joy and freedom and growth and hope and life on the other side of that of that thing that you fear.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. I would love for you to kinda close out by talking about how this principle played a role in kind of the redeeming of that situation in your life and and even for other people. Leaders focus more on what they are for than what they are against.
Kyle Guemmer:The most transformative moment in this mess that I was navigating years ago was on a coaching call with Alex. And, again, I don't know what is up, down, left, or right, and and there's so many things that, are pulling me in different directions, people that I love, my own family, and providing for them the the the conviction that I had within my own turmoil with the values that were compromised. And Alex just asked me, like, what do you want? And I was like, well, no one's asked me that, or I haven't really even considered that in the midst of this. There's there's a lot of things that I'm trying to navigate, but I haven't asked myself what I want.
Kyle Guemmer:And and he just took me through an exercise of me literally writing six or seven success statements of what I want to be able to say is true about my career, and those were things that I was for and not all the things that I could have been against, all the things that I could have been frustrated with, all the things that were so, hurtful and sad in the circumstance. And so I wrote the things that I was for. I wrote the things that I wanted to be able to say were true. And then we went through an exercise of actually, like, red, yellow, greening those in the moment. And the moment that we got done with well, we did that, like, where are these at right now?
Kyle Guemmer:These things that I want to be able to say is true in this circumstance or on the other side of this circumstance, and what do I believe can be true six months from now? And the moment I read Yellow Green, what I believe, which goes back to that principle, effort never sustainably exceeds belief, I knew in that moment I can no longer work here. And then we literally wrote success statements for what I was for in the transition process out of that role, and what I wanted to be able to say was true at the end of that transition.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think that exercise and really just the principle in general, like, it is so easy and probably maybe even natural to get imprisoned by your current circumstances and something powerful happened. Like, a leader's eyes start to light up the minute they just ponder the question, what am I for? What do I actually want?
Matt Aiken:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Y'all thanks. This is great. Hey, y'all. Thanks so much for watching. If you want more content like this, we've got some killer stuff planned.
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