How to Establish a Healthy Feedback Culture
Why is feedback so hard for people?
Alex Judd:Because it's easier to avoid the truth, maybe, at least in the short term versus the long term. If we're gonna commit to having a healthy feedback culture, the real commitment that we're making is we're gonna talk about what's real. And I think we all maybe subconsciously or sometimes consciously know if I'm gonna talk what's real in and about other people, then I'm opening the door to what's real being talked about with regard to me. And that's a tougher standard to live with. So I I guess, why is it hard?
Alex Judd:Because it's easy to avoid.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. Why are we talking about it today?
Alex Judd:I'll never forget. She was one of the best leaders I ever worked with, but it didn't feel that way at first because I started working with this woman, and immediately, she had so much feedback for me. And it was like a little thing. She was just, like, pointing out, like, all these things that I could be doing different, that I could be doing better, you know, preferences. And it frazzled me at first, and I was like, oh my gosh.
Alex Judd:I'm doing a horrible job. And then I'll never forget, she pretty quickly set expectations for me. She said, Alex, I give feedback early, clearly, and often, and that's not because you're doing a bad job. I actually think you're doing a good job. I just want you to know what I'm thinking so it doesn't allow, like, allow it to get built up.
Alex Judd:And she became one of my favorite leaders I've ever worked for. Why? Because I felt so safe and comfortable around her, which, was kind of the opposite of what you expect. But the reason why I felt safe and comfortable around her is because I knew if she's thinking something, she's gonna tell me. Mhmm.
Alex Judd:And I realized that, man, there's these other leaders that I've I've worked with in the past that it became clear over time. They were thinking things. They just didn't tell me. And I just made the decision like, man, I'm gonna be the type of person that when I see something, I say something, and then I revert to normalcy really, really quickly.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. I've heard you say this multiple times now, and it's good feedback is like telling someone they have spinach in their teeth.
Alex Judd:Yeah. And here's what's crazy. You didn't know this. The person that I learned that from was that woman.
Ben Loy:Oh, there go.
Alex Judd:And and so she, like, reformatized. She's like, Alex, here's what you gotta know. It's like, when I give you feedback about something that I can be bet think can be better or, like, there's a better way for you to do something or that's not aligned with our expectations, she's like, it's just like me telling you you have spinach in your teeth. And she's like, would you rather me be the person that will sit with you at the table the whole meal and not tell you, or would you rather me just mention like, hey, you've got spinach in your teeth? And I said, well, obviously, the latter.
Alex Judd:She's like, that's what this is all about.
Ben Loy:So how do you do that in a healthy way?
Alex Judd:I think that's in some ways what this whole episode is about, and really, we're we're kind of recording this episode as a primer for the growth room that we're gonna be doing within the base camp community here soon. So we're gonna talk about a lot of actions about how you do that, but I I think a good overarching kind of principle based approach to the way we're talking about this is found in Matthew six. Right? It's in the sermon on the mount, and Jesus basically says, you hypocrites. Why do you point out the speck that is in your brother's eye without first taking the log out of your own eye?
Alex Judd:And he said, first, take the log out of your own eye, then you will see clearly enough to take the speck out of your brother's eye. So how do we position ourselves and posture ourselves to give feedback well? Deal with our own stuff first is what I would say. And I heard Tim Keller give a message on this once that was so powerful and profound because it highlighted the value that's actually in that illustration. You know, if you have something in your eye, how do you take that out, Or how do you want other people to help you take that out?
Alex Judd:Is it, hey, let me take this knife and let me get that out your no. Right? Because the eye is like one of the most sensitive parts of your body. Right? It's incredibly fragile.
Alex Judd:And and so, man, we wanna operate with great care and great empathy and great intentionality when we're taking something out of our eye. And and if we know we want that for our own eye, then then that will kinda change the way that we approach other people with their imperfections and mistakes. And so don't believe that you're the perfect one that's pointing out the imperfections in others. Rather, think about your own imperfections and think about how you wanna be treated.
Ben Loy:So we have five principles we're gonna talk about today. Do you wanna jump into the first one?
Alex Judd:Yeah. And I would actually kind of think of them as actions. Right? They're principle based actions for delivering feedback well. And I think what what we already said is kind of embedded in action item number one is reflect on how you would want to be treated.
Alex Judd:This this really should feel just like a speed bump. Right? Because so often as a leader, you're moving really fast. You've got objectives. You've got aim, and you see something that's a deviation from that aim or that objective, and you just go 90 miles an hour.
Alex Judd:And and if you're not careful, and if I'm not careful, I don't think about how the person on the receiving end of the feedback will kind of engage with that 90 miles an hour because this is just some small thing to me. But to them, it's like, man, I I just got course corrected on how I'm doing my job, and I might have spent a lot of time, energy, thought doing this really well, and now I'm getting feedback on it. So just think to yourself, how do I wanna be treated in this situation? It doesn't mean everything has to be some massively formal conversation, but it should change our heart posture of, like, why am I sharing this? It's in their best interest, and that's always the motive.
Alex Judd:So reflect on how you would wanna be treated and make sure that that influences and affects the way that you deliver feedback.
Ben Loy:I mean, that's the golden rule. Right? Yeah. As as you wanna be treated. How does that weigh in when, like, you know, personalities are different?
Ben Loy:Some people are gonna prefer feedback in maybe in one way versus another way. Right? Like, I think some people can take more direct feedback on the chin, and it's it's not an issue, but then others might take it more personally. How do you navigate that principle or that that action in that context?
Alex Judd:Yeah. Well, in some ways, we need to make sure that we are, being intentional about the culture that we're creating. Right? So culture is either what you create or what you tolerate. Right?
Alex Judd:And if you are the type of person that you like rapid feedback, non emotional, depersonalized, detached, obviously, in a kind and friendly and honest way, but you're not the type of person that can sit down and have an hour conversation anytime we need to talk about something different. Right? Or or a disagreement that we have. If that's not how you're wired and that's not how you operate, well, then make sure that's embedded in the culture of your organization and in your hiring process. Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Right? Because in some ways, if you're saying this is something that I'm not really going to change all that much, well, then you need to make sure that the people you're hiring and onboarding are opting in for that culture. Right? And there's nothing that I said in terms of those expectations that are necessarily wrong, but you just articulated that's not for everyone. Mhmm.
Alex Judd:And so what you do have a responsibility to do is not to change who you are, but you do have a responsibility to make sure people are clear whenever they're entering the organization. This is who we are, and this is how we operate. And what you'll often find is you'll have less of that misalignment oftentimes.
Ben Loy:What's the what's the second action?
Alex Judd:Yeah. Establish agreed upon standards. A lot of times feedback is just given instead of standards, and that's incorrect. That's improper leadership. Right?
Alex Judd:Because what we're saying there is, like, we're not gonna take the time as a leader to describe our expectations, to describe what we actually want, to describe our vision for where we're going. We're just gonna play reactive whack a mole whenever we see things we don't like. And this idea of establishing standards proactively is really rooted in a view of humanity that says, man, most people, most of the time are just doing the best that they can. Mhmm. And that if we as a leader do our job, which is one of our core responsibilities of creating a clear picture of what winning looks like, then we give people the opportunity to take action towards winning.
Alex Judd:When we don't do that, we shouldn't really be upset whenever they're not meeting our mysterious, unclarified, ambiguous expectations. How can other people know your expectations if you don't is the question that I would ask, and so establishing clear standards.
Ben Loy:So let's say someone hasn't established a standard. Something happens, they realize, oh, I need to get I need to give this person feedback. What's a healthy way to approach that well? Or you realize that you didn't even have you just realized you had those expectations and you didn't even realize that you had them.
Alex Judd:I'm gonna turn this question around you because I know for a fact I've done this to you before. So right? Like and and I don't necessarily think that it's inherently wrong, right, or that I'm a bad leader just because this happens in a a fast growing, like, fast paced organization. But, if there have been times where I've had those conversations with you well, what have I done?
Ben Loy:You actually state that fact of, like, hey, Like, this is an expectation that I had that I didn't realize I had, or this is something that we haven't stated that I'd like to create as a standard moving forward. And I guess, some way, you're opening up the the ability to, like, have a conversation about it, and you're you're approaching it with humility instead of just, oh, like, this is how it should be, and then, you know, just kind of giving them marching orders and moving on.
Alex Judd:Yeah. And and, yeah. Well, I didn't ask you that question just for you to tell everyone how humble I am. But thank thank you. Yeah.
Alex Judd:Yeah. But what's now, let's, let's be very real here. It could be really easy to kinda scapegoat. Because in some ways, whenever you're saying, man, I didn't even realize I had these expectations. Now I'm realizing it.
Alex Judd:You're now saying I bear part of the blame for where things ended up in some ways. Mhmm. And it's way easier way easier to scapegoat and be like, you bear the blame for where things ended up. Right? I I was listening to something literally this morning that scapegoat is like old testament language.
Alex Judd:They would put their hands on the goat, and in the process of putting their hands on the goat, they would transfer their sin and curse onto the goat, and then they would send it out into the desert. Right? And as leaders, dang, we have a propensity to scapegoat people. Right? Things that are actually my thing that I played a role in creating the bad outcomes we experience.
Alex Judd:I just put on you as my goat, and then I send you out to the desert.
Ben Loy:Yeah. Is there any way to to, like, whether or not you're doing that? Like, what are the questions that a leader could ask themselves to make sure that they're not they're not doing that before providing feedback? Yeah.
Alex Judd:Are people regularly leaving on bad terms? So it's a pretty good lagging indicator. Because if people are regularly leaving on bad terms, and you just can't find people that will stay, it's probably not the people that are the problem. Right? There's probably something in your leadership that is the issue that needs to be dealt with.
Alex Judd:So that's kind of one broad overarching indicator. But then another one, and it's actually one of our actions on here if we wanna jump ahead is, you know, what feedback do you have for me? And that's actually a I I word that question very particularly. It's not do you have feedback for me? Because if you ask a yes or no, do you have feedback for me?
Alex Judd:That's a question that especially if you're not in the most healthy spot as a leader, it the path of least resistance is to say no. Right? And so we assume an answer. It could even be positive feedback. Right?
Alex Judd:It could be neutral feedback, but we assume the person sitting across from me has opinions and they know what it's like to be on the other side of my leadership, and I need to know what that is. So I'm not gonna ask them, do you have it? I'm gonna ask them, what feedback do you have for me?
Ben Loy:Yeah. I love that. That's awesome.
Alex Judd:That's good. I use that. Yeah. I mean, it's really, really helpful. It's wild because I have literally seen a change.
Alex Judd:I mean, early in my leadership journey, I would ask people, do you have feedback? And they go, nope. It's all good. And then I just started changing. It's like, hey.
Alex Judd:What feedback do you have for me? And what's crazy is they answer. They they absolutely answer that question because it's an open ended question instead of close end question where the path of least resistance is to say nothing.
Ben Loy:This is really helpful because it just opens up the conversation that, like, nobody is above feedback.
Alex Judd:Yes. I agree. And it and if anyone in your organization is above feedback, that's the beginning of the end. I I really, really believe that. And I'll never forget we did an interview years ago with, he actually lives here in the Valley, Hazard Lee.
Alex Judd:He's he trains f thirty five fighter pilots, and he was a f thirty five fighter pilot himself. And he would talk about these post mission feedback sessions where they would have the video, and there would literally be a 100 people in the room and and all ranks. Right? And he said it was group learning, and he said everyone in the room was expected to give and receive feedback from everyone in the room. And, man, how powerful is that that the four star general is not above receiving feedback from the entry level.
Alex Judd:Now there's gonna be, something that we talk about later that talks a lot about the wisdom with how we deliver feedback. And remember, part of delivering feedback well is it's always in service of the best interest of the other person, and it's probably ineffective feedback if it's delivered in such a way that they can't receive it. And some of that you can influence. Obviously, that's largely influenced by the other person's heart posture as well, but we shouldn't negate our role in delivering feedback in a way that actually contributes to positive action moving forward.
Ben Loy:Yeah. One one of the things I really like about, I mean, the aviation community in general, but also, like, being in military aviation. And I can't imagine doing this with, like, a 100 people. So, yeah, that blows my mind. But, like, even when we were when I was in the coast guard, it was, like, every flight, right, you had a you had a preflight brief.
Ben Loy:Like, this is what we're gonna go out to do. These are the conditions. This is the plan. You would then execute it. And then on the back end, it would there was always, always a flight debrief.
Ben Loy:And so and that was an opportunity to share with each crew member, like, hey. Like, is, you know, this is helpful, and this is unhelpful. Or, you know, here's a technique that you could use to make it easier on on my role and on maybe the rest of the team, or you did this really well. Like, you communicated really well here. And I think just being able to to actually just make the space for that.
Ben Loy:And then also, I mean, at the time, like, I was an an enlisted person talking with at some moments, like, the aircraft commander was he was, like, the captain of the of the base.
Alex Judd:And
Ben Loy:so it's like, he's he's head honcho at at the air station, and I'm potentially you know, the the space is there to open up the opportunity to give feedback on how well he did. Yeah. And that that's a really interesting dynamic when you then go back into, like, the day to day and, you know, the on the roll chart. I'm I'm way below where he is. So
Alex Judd:And that's the culture we ultimately want in in our organizations, I think, that it's available and you can. Right? I guess another thing that I would point out there is that becomes way more vibrant and and I think happens more in the presence of a clear plan and clear outcomes. Mhmm. Because then you're kind of giving someone the framework within which they can give feedback to you.
Alex Judd:And, and you also give people the framework in which they can get feedback themselves. This is another hyper practical thing that I've learned from a leadership perspective is if I give someone clear outcomes and a clear plan, right, we we do this for our experience talks. Right? Like, we'll delegate an experience talk to someone on the team. This is a a high stakes item.
Alex Judd:Right? We're giving you sometimes ninety minutes with 40 plus customers that have invested a lot of time and a lot of money to be in that room, and we've, you know, really trusted you with that ninety minutes. And I try really hard, to to create clear outcomes of, like, this is what we wanna be able to say is true at the end of this talk. Right? And then what's so helpful is on the back end of those talks, what I've learned to do is before I say anything in terms of feedback or evaluation, I ask them, what feedback do you have for yourself?
Alex Judd:Because it's way better for them to evaluate themselves and kind of, like, hear themselves say, here here's what I could do better. Here's what I did well. And then also, I'm not dog piling on things that they already know. A lot of times, it can actually be really demoralizing for people to be like, oh my gosh, my my leader, quote unquote leader, thinks I'm an idiot because they're having to tell me these things since, like, I already knew these things, and I I've been thinking about these things since the day I gave that talk. Right?
Alex Judd:Mhmm. It feels way more empowering to be like, here's the feedback I have for me, and then we can say, okay. Then I think this might be a blind spot for you. This could be something you could work on.
Ben Loy:Yeah. Do you have any examples of when that's, like, when that's played out really well?
Alex Judd:Every time we do experience talks, like, I I would say that occurs, and and I'll often ask the question, and, the coaches on our team that are giving these experience talks, they'll say, yep. Here's my feedback for me. Bam. Bam. Bam.
Alex Judd:Bam. Bam. And I'll say, like, man, there's sometimes where I'll say, like, man, you wrote down some of the exact same things that I wrote down, so I'm I'm gonna skip those from my list. There's sometimes where it's, like, I think you're perceiving this inaccurately. I think you're beating yourself up.
Alex Judd:And and then there's other times where it's, like, then I have to ask. Here's another thing I would ask, because like, okay, you gave me I asked you for feedback. What feedback do you have for you? And you gave me a list of negative things that you wanna change. Feedback is both positive and negative.
Alex Judd:Yeah. So what's the things you did well? And then, man, you can hear confidence grow in someone whenever you hear them say, oh, well, I think I did this well, this well, this well. And a lot of times, a lot of the gold is in amplifying what we're already doing well, so that can be really valuable too.
Ben Loy:Alright. Let's move on to the next one.
Alex Judd:Okay. So so the next one is normalize sharing feedback early, clearly, and often. And the word I would highlight there is normalize, and it should be normalizing onboarding. Like, this if you wanna create a healthy feedback culture, then that needs to be onboarded. It should not be expected from day one.
Alex Judd:Why? Because a healthy feedback culture is not normal. Most people that come to work with you, if you're not their first job, which it's highly unlikely that you are, they're coming to you from an unhealthy feedback culture and an absent feedback culture, which is an unhealthy feedback culture. Right? And so everyone says, oh, we believe in honest, open feedback, and very few organizations do it.
Alex Judd:So when you start doing it, they're gonna feel like, oh, something is wrong. This is weird. And so you have to teach it. You have to train it. It's it's one of the side reasons why we're doing the feedback growth room in the community is because we just hired three new people, and I realized this needs to be part of their onboarding plan.
Alex Judd:And I said, well, we're gonna do it for their onboarding plan. We might as well do it for the whole membership community as well. Right? And so I'm just killing two birds with one stone, and we're gonna teach our feedback lesson, right, to normalize. Like, this is really, really normal, and and feedback is not a sign that something is wrong.
Alex Judd:It's actually a sign that something is healthy. We can talk about anything, and then we're gonna work together to move forward. And so, in onboarding, in one on one meetings, and then during or after any time you do shared work together, create space for feedback so that they can start to get used to it.
Ben Loy:I I think what's really important about this is, like, the the word create space. Like, I've heard I've heard a lot of leaders say, I have an open door policy. Like, if you ever need anything or any ever have anything to say or, like, have feedback or whatever, like, just come to me. But then, like, if you if if the if most of your team is afraid to walk in that office because you haven't actually, like, as the leader, created space to give them opportunities to do that and get reps for them to understand and build trust with you that that feedback is okay, like, they're not going they're not gonna come
Alex Judd:to you. That's exactly right. I've I've heard it said that the distance from your office to their desk is 50 feet. The distance from their desk to your office is five miles. Right?
Alex Judd:Like, it's it's way harder. Right? There is so much resistance to go from, man, I'm I'm a contributor on this team that is going to walk into my leader's office and have a discussion about how I could be more effective if they modified some things that they're doing. Mhmm. Even though that stuff might be true, and I might even deliver it in the most polite way, it's just the resistance to doing that is a mount.
Alex Judd:And if I'm in the first ninety days, right, or if I'm in the first year, oh my gosh. Right? Now, conversely, if I as a leader go and say, hey. What you know, we're in your first ninety days. What feedback do you have for me on how I can help you be successful?
Alex Judd:Number one, you know, I think that's gonna make an incredible impression on them. I also I I mean, it's rare that I ask that question of someone, and they don't ask back, what feedback do you have for me? So in some ways, you are allowing them to take ownership over their own feedback journey as well. Mhmm.
Ben Loy:I mean, yeah, you're leading many ways, you're leading by example.
Alex Judd:For sure. Absolutely. If
Ben Loy:there was, like, one hyper practical thing somebody could do to, like, start creating a culture where feedback is early, clear, and often and and creating opportunities to do that, what would it be?
Alex Judd:I I would say give give feedback. Right? Like, see something. Hopefully, it's in an arena where you've established standards or something like that, or you want to establish standards. And then I would say, you know, go to the person.
Alex Judd:If you see something that's a deviation or off or you see that there's something better that could be done in order to achieve those aims, I would request their opt in and just say, hey. Can I give you just a little bit of feedback? And they say yes. Right? If they say no, we've got a different convert that's a different podcast episode probably.
Alex Judd:And then, you know, ask them, you know, or or tell them kinda here's my thought. And then maybe ask them, like, is there something that I'm missing here? Right? Is there something that I'm missing here that that that doesn't make sense? Right?
Alex Judd:And and then you can have a really genuinely curious conversation. And then here's the big thing, is on the back end of that later in the day, normalize a return to normalcy. Right? So so if this is the type of person you would go get lunch with, say, like, hey, you wanna grab lunch later today or something like that, or make a joke with them or talk about something else. Right?
Alex Judd:Like, make sure that you find a way to prove to them, hey, this does not affect at all the way that I view you in your role, the way that I view you in your job. This is just a result that we are working on together, and we're we're still cool. Right? And you just saying that is good. You, like, proving that is way, way better.
Alex Judd:Right?
Ben Loy:Yeah. Why why is that important?
Alex Judd:Because a lot of people think, man, when when I receive feedback from someone, you know, they said it in the moment, but they're festering on it beyond that moment. Right? And it's just sitting there, and they're, you know, they're thinking, man, they're they're thinking about this all day and all night because I'm now thinking about this all day and all night. And what you just have to prove to them is, like, this literally left my mind the minute I told it to you, and I trust you to do something moving forward.
Ben Loy:Well, let let's talk about the last one before we close out.
Alex Judd:Yeah. So so the last action is to use wisdom to discern how to deliver feedback. Right? And and wisdom is really like, I can't give you a checklist here. I can't give you an action item of, like, if this, then that.
Alex Judd:Wisdom is competence with regard to the realities of life is what Tim Keller would say. And so you're a wise leader. Right? You can factor in the principles, the situation, the circumstances at play, and make a decision of how feedback is best delivered in service of another person. Because, you know, sometimes the reality is is this is spinach in your teeth feedback that I just need to be able to say this, and we need to be able to move forward because it's a small thing.
Alex Judd:Right? But there can be other times where you're like, if I'm if I'm being real, like, this is not spinach in your teeth. Like, this is a bigger thing, and to treat it as spinach in your teeth would actually not be serving that person. Right? And so I can't tell you what to do when.
Alex Judd:I can't do that. What I can do is share with you, a framework that has been really helpful for me just recently, honestly, in terms of evaluating when and how and in what medium to deliver feedback. And and it's just three factors that should be considered. Number one is impact. Number two is objectivity, and number three is trust.
Alex Judd:So impact, objectivity, and trust. And I would think of these three things as dials. Right? These are three kind of factors that operate as dials. And so if we kind of run ourselves through this framework is like, say you're talking about something that it's like, man, it's high impact.
Alex Judd:It's a level 10 on the impact scale. The stakes are really, really high. It's also highly subjective. Like, way of viewing this could be very different than your way of viewing this, and we might not be aligned. It's not like a factual thing, and trust is low.
Alex Judd:Right? So so it's highly subjective. It's high impact, and we have low trust. Not in that, like, I don't trust you. You don't trust me, but we don't have great relational rapport or our relationship feels a little clunky right now.
Alex Judd:Well, obviously, I shouldn't just fly by and shoot you a text message and be like, hey, this is, you know, this is different than what I expected. Right? Obviously, this is the type of thing that it's so high impact. It probably warrants, like, scheduling a sit down conversation and saying, wanna discuss this. The other thing that those dials can help with, and we can run through more hypotheticals if we want to, is, evaluate impact, trust, objectivity, and in light of that, you can kinda answer the question, how assertive should I be versus how curious should I be?
Alex Judd:Can I deliver this feedback in writing, or does it need to be in person? How much time should I leave for this discussion? How formal should this conversation be? Those are all things that the answers to those will come based on your evaluation, again, of impact, objectivity, and trust in the relationship.
Ben Loy:What if there's, like, a disconnect between the impact, like, the team member perceives it to be versus what you perceive it to be?
Alex Judd:Yeah. Are you picturing that I perceive it to be high impact and they perceive it to be low impact?
Ben Loy:Yeah.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Well, I would say if there's misalignment in impact, objectivity, or trust, then it you you have your answer. Right? I need to sit down, and we need to discuss this. Because, really, the feedback at that point is not about the thing.
Alex Judd:It's about the fact that we're misaligned on the thing. Right. Right? It's about the fact that your perception of the thing is small, and my perception of the the, thing is big. And and it's really good to kinda lay down our armor and not think like I'm going into this with the right answer, especially if you if you do trust the person.
Ben Loy:Yeah.
Alex Judd:Right? It's really good to lay down the armor and just be like, we are not seeing eye to eye here. We should talk about this, and we should each explain kinda where we're coming from.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. If there is, like, anything you wanted someone to take away from this conversation, what would it be?
Alex Judd:As a leader, a healthy feedback culture is your responsibility. Right? So so the health of the organization's culture or the shared values and behaviors of a team is your responsibility as a leader. That's one of your, like, core, success statements that you should be focused on. And part of that culture being healthy is the ability to receive and give feedback in a healthy way.
Alex Judd:And so what I would tell you is red, yellow, green, the health of your organization's feedback culture. And based on where you're at, ask yourself, okay. What could I do to take this red to yellow, or what could I do to take this yellow to green? And make sure that if it is green, you're, man, you are never more at risk of complacency than when something is green. You're regularly developing and depositing into that so you don't just allow it to actually drift backwards from where it's at.
Ben Loy:Thanks, Alex.
Alex Judd:Thanks, Ben. Well, there you have it. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode. If you want any of the information or resources that we mentioned, that's all in the show notes. Hey.
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Alex Judd:So thanks in advance for helping us out on that front. Are you a leader that wants to grow your business in a healthy way, serve people exceptionally well, and glorify God in the process? Go to pathforgrowth.com to get more information about our community of impact driven leaders and schedule a call with our team. Hey, thank you so much to the Path for Growth team, Kyle Cummings and the crew at Podcircle, and the remarkable leaders that are actively engaged in the Path for Growth community. Y'all are the people that make this podcast possible.
Alex Judd:Y'all know this. We're rooting for you. We're praying for you. We wanna see you win. Remember, my strength is not for me.
Alex Judd:Your strength is not for you. Our strength is for service. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
