5 Principles for Leaders
So it's one of the things that we talk to leaders about all the time and that has been just critically important for me to remember as we grow our business. It's a principle: language creates culture. Right? The things that you say as a team over and over and over again create the culture that your team, and in some ways even your customers, live out. So as a leader, like you do yourself and your team a great favor when you put on the hat of CRO, right?
Alex Judd:Chief Repeating Officer. And so in some ways, that's kind of what we're diving into here today is like, we've now been in business for five years and there are certain phrases that have cascaded, not even just into our team. Like our team knows these phrases by heart, right? Because we've said them over and over and over again. But what's crazy is there are some of our customers now that are leading businesses around the country that are actively and intentionally using these phrases with their teams.
Alex Judd:And like, I'll meet people for the first time and they'll tell me one of these phrases. I'll be like and they'll act like it's their quote. And I'm thrilled about that, right? Like, because that's language creates culture. So in some ways we just wanted to create, as we're launching this YouTube channel, just a repository of some of the core phrases that are bigger than just phrases.
Alex Judd:These represent fundamental foundational beliefs of the mission that we're on as a company. And that's really important for us to focus on early because beliefs drive behavior. So the things we do, they are all in some way inextricably interconnected into these beliefs. If people are interested in what Path for Growth is and what we do and the mission that we're on and the people that we serve, like, beliefs are a great place to start.
Ben Loy:When did you first realize how important language was?
Alex Judd:Oh, gosh. I I have loved language for a long time. Like, I don't know if I've told you this story before, but I literally remember I I was sitting on my mom's bed. I was in second grade, sitting on my mom's bed while she was folding laundry. And I was just, like, shooting the breeze and, like, literally, she was folding laundry.
Alex Judd:And I said, you know, mom, when I grow up, I don't think I want to be a motivational speaker, but I would love to be a motivational teacher one day. And just she looked at me. She's like, what? Like, go play outside. Like, what are you talking about?
Alex Judd:Right? But I say all that to say like, not that it's been at the forefront of my mind all the time, but the topic of intentional and effective communication as a, as a means and vehicle for intentional and effective leadership has been something that I've had in the back of my head for a very, very long time. Fast forward, I saw this really modeled in two places. Number one is in college, I was the drum major for the Longhorn Band, which the Longhorn Band is the show band of the Southwest people. Hook them horns.
Alex Judd:What starts here changes the world. Right? 400 person organization, one of the most, I mean, honestly, revered marching band programs in the country. And you have a single drum major that is the liaison between staff and students that is the primary student leader of the organization. Incredible opportunity.
Alex Judd:Absurdly impressive organization with a massive history and tradition. And what was so cool that I didn't know I was learning this at the time, being in Longhorn Band and observing the inner workings of that organization with decades, if not a century of tradition, what you saw is years and years and years of language. Right? When I said same thing, like we're going to run a drill again, everyone would say same thing, mo better. Right?
Alex Judd:Like everyone would say that. And like we had all these things that we would say that we're going to beat the hell out of A and M. Right? But then we're not going to beat the hell out of Baylor because Baylor is a Christian school. So we're going to beat the hell into Baylor is what we're going to do.
Alex Judd:Right? Language that creates culture. Right? I could list so many different things that literally would sound like we're talking a different language, but but in many ways, it was like this giant inside joke that everyone knew. And so I saw it there first and then went and worked for an organization called SPUR Leadership that was associated with Lake Hills Church in Austin, Texas after that.
Alex Judd:And one of the things that Lake Hills did extremely well is they codified their core values, which is what do you stand for? And they used that language over and over and over again. And I mean, we knew the mission of this place is to grow the community of Christ one life at a time. And it's like, I still have that mission memorized. That's crazy.
Alex Judd:I worked there over ten years ago. And so again, you created a culture, shared values and behaviors of a team by reinforcing the language that brought people together. And then certainly saw it at Ramsey. Ramsey is like a masterclass and just listen to Dave on the radio for three hours a day, by the way. And I mean, you hear him say so many of the same things over and over again.
Alex Judd:And now it's like a it's like a meme. It's like an ism that people say his things to him before he can say it to them. And, like, they, like, love it. They love that stuff. Right?
Alex Judd:Language creates culture.
Ben Loy:That reminds me a lot of in boot camp when Is this coast guard boot camp? Yes. Yeah. So when you, I just remember, like, when I first went to the recruiter and I got my ship date, which was a couple months out from when I first interacted with the recruiter, they give you this little handbook and it's like the little it's the coast guard's handbook. And you have to memorize a bunch of the language in it.
Ben Loy:You have to memorize you know, there's, like, standard orders you have to memorize. And then when you're at boot camp as well, one of the disciplinary actions you have is they have this huge book that's like the Coast Guard manual, and you would hold the book out in front of you at arm's length for, like, a ridiculous amount of time. And you just repeat the same phrase reading reading the same page over and over and over and over and over again. And that's what that that's just what I think of when it's like, oh, yeah, repeated language drives culture. It's like, I mean, yeah, in a big way, I I probably, if you started some sentences to those pages, I could probably just, rattle off the rest of them.
Ben Loy:For sure.
Alex Judd:I mean, what I think of when you say that is that needs to be in Pathfrog's onboarding process. Yeah. Yeah. People stand with a in front of them while their arms are shaking.
Ben Loy:We're gonna stand for thirty minutes with a in front of you.
Alex Judd:In some ways too, also think, like, this podcast could also be called, like, the nerd and the jock because Alex shows up with his marching band stories and Ben shows up with his coast guard boot camp stories, but Different perspectives.
Ben Loy:There we go. Yeah. We'll have Chet GPT make a meme of that. There you go. So you have these, you know, five tenets or five principles.
Ben Loy:What's the first one?
Alex Judd:Let's highlight too, like, are not things that we just wrote down and we're like, that sounds good. Let's go with that. Like, I think every single one of these, there was almost like a methodology that went into it becoming the thing that was repeated. Number one, it stuck because it had resonance with real life. So like when we, recognize this principle or this phrase, we were like, man, we're going to grab onto that and we're going to remember that because we feel like it describes not only what we see in our business and leadership in life, but it describes what we see in other people's business leadership in life.
Alex Judd:And then really how we take that then we distill it down into the list of five that we're going to share in this episode is we kind of said, okay, what are the things that we are saying over and over and over again? And the reason why we're saying it over and over and over again is not just because it sticks with us internally. It has like, I mean, a home in people's businesses, leadership, life externally. Like these are the things that when people call me after listening to our podcast for years, they can quote them back to me. And oftentimes you can learn a lot about what is true by seeing what do people respond to and what's the language they latch onto.
Alex Judd:And so some of these are quotes that I've heard over the years, which I'm going to do my best to give good attribution. Some of them are things that we've observed and some of them are directly connected to stories of building this business. So with that, can we jump into number one? Yeah. So number one, let's tell the story behind it first.
Alex Judd:There's five of these that we're going to go through. Number one, I had started the business, which we tell the whole story. Maybe not the whole story, but some of the story in the previous episode about making the decision to leave Ramsey and start the business. And and one of the things that I shared in that first episode that we recorded was, you know, if you're not careful, you can spend so much time preparing for the worst case scenario that you don't ever spend any time asking, well, what if the best case scenario happens and how are we gonna handle that? And that's where we were in the business.
Alex Judd:And so six months in, my one on one docket was filled. We were staffing growth groups and Olivia was running growth groups. Our team was already bigger than what I had anticipated it being. And we were getting more demand every single day. And beyond that, like we had office hours that were going on, we were talking about launching new products, we had just put out the idea of having our first in person experiences.
Alex Judd:My mind was on who we were going to hire and when we were going to hire them. And like, if you had asked me at that time, like, how are things going? My honest answer would have been like, things are going great. This is just awesome. Right?
Alex Judd:And, you know, fast forward to November 2020. So started in June, we're now at November 2020. And this is a wild story that could be a huge tangent. We won't go on the full tangent, but I got invited to go on a trip to Richard Branson's private island. Unbelievable.
Alex Judd:Right? And, actually, like, through a whole series of decisions and circumstances, like, was planning to go there, but then made the decision like, no, I don't need to be going that right now. So now I've got like a week open, and I've already planned not to be working. And this is my first time off since we started the business. And I said, I'm just going to go down and still go to the beach.
Alex Judd:It's not going to be a private island, but I'm going to go to Panama City, Florida and just like, almost find some solitude. And I felt like hungry for some solitude in some ways because we run a very relational business. And although I'm a very relational person, I'm an introvert. Right? And I recharge, refuel by being by myself.
Alex Judd:And so I was really excited about going down to Panama City. I'll never forget, like, I had made the whole plan with my assistant to, like, be off off, clear the calendar, all of that, and got there in the condo in Panama City and put my computer and my phone under a pillow in the, like, guest bedroom and I was going to be off. And I did all of that and then I just remember sitting down and I'm in this beautiful place. I'm at the beach. There's great restaurants in walking distance.
Alex Judd:And I'm just, like, sitting there and I, like, can't breathe. And it's in that context of, like, not being able to breathe that, like, it hits me, like, I have been on for six months. Like, I have and I have forgotten how to turn things off. And, you know, I wish I could say, like, that four days was, like, this incredible time off where I was at the beach and I got to hit restore and refresh and find my creativity again, find passion. I was anxious the entire time.
Alex Judd:Right? And for me, it was this wake up call of like, this thing has been growing, but just because it's been growing doesn't mean that it's healthy and doesn't mean that I'm healthy. And what had really been happening is my stress level had been growing proportional to the rate of our business. And so the bigger our business got, the more stressed I became. And I like, praise God.
Alex Judd:Truly. I mean that. Because if I didn't end up on this beach house by myself, I'm not sure I would have recognized this. Like, if you extrapolate that out two years, I realized like this thing is going to kill me or I'm not going to want to do this anymore. And so it was, I did not have answers, but I did have questions.
Alex Judd:I said like, this can not be the way to do this. I refuse to have my stress level grow proportional to the rate of my business till the end of time. We are going to do something different. And it was out of that, that the mantra that I just started saying over and over again to myself, but also to our customers is health and growth are not the same thing. And it's wild, but I think we actually confuse that.
Alex Judd:Like we think, oh, well, you're growing, so you must be healthy. Uh-uh. Not what I've seen. Right? Everyone says if you're not growing, you're dying.
Alex Judd:We like to sound real tough when we say it. Right? Well, what I have learned is just because you're growing doesn't mean you're living. And I, unfortunately, have met a lot of people, and I also know a lot of businesses that they're growing. On the external, everything's up and to the right, but just inside, they're just as dead as those that aren't.
Alex Judd:And so what I constantly have to remind myself, but we're also reminding our team, we're also reminding the business owners and the leaders that we work with every single day is just because you're growing doesn't mean you're living. It's possible to practice healthy growth. The thing that I know to be true, though, is that it never happens accidentally. It always happens because someone decided to exercise extreme, uncommon, unprecedented intentionality.
Ben Loy:Well, once you had that realization, how did that play out practically?
Alex Judd:Yeah. Well, I had to figure out how to breathe again, first of all. I mean, honestly, I was a little bit scared because I was like, well, this is what I've been doing is working really hard and keeping up with the pace of demand, and I feel like that's the right thing. If that results in this stress level, well, then what am I supposed to do? Right?
Alex Judd:And and so really, it didn't start with a bunch of answers, like I already said. It started with a bunch of questions. And I started to turn on my radar for people that were growing, that were successful, that were creating jobs, that were acquiring new customers, that were moving forward in business and leadership and in life. But not only were they successful externally, they loved their life. Right?
Alex Judd:And they were content where they were. They were joyful where they were. Their spouse loved them, and they had a relationship that seemed admirable. They had a really incredible relationship with their kids. And it just seemed like they were becoming more of the person, the man, the woman, the leader, the Christ follower, the business owner that they wanted to become.
Alex Judd:And the business was every day becoming more and more of what it was supposed to be, not like becoming a shadow of itself or something you're not proud of. And so I started to pay attention and look for those. And the first thing I noticed was that's incredibly rare. Like you can find a lot of people that are growing, you can find a lot of people that are happy. It's hard to find people that are happy and growing.
Alex Judd:Right? And so, but when I found them, I was like, that's my person. And I would zoom in and I thought of those people as like lights, right? Like lights and like, let's zoom in and let's look at the light. And I mean, it started as me and then it became our company.
Alex Judd:We started studying these people and we said, not only is this how we want to do business, we want to do business this way. And then in the process of doing business this way, we want to train, teach, coach other leaders on how to do business this way. And that's where like healthy growth became one of the things that we're known for. And we knew we had something when on our community office hours calls, I'd hear Naftali or I'd hear Karen or I'd hear Clint or I'd hear Justin or you can name any number of our first customers. And they'd say, well, I know a lot of people would do something this way, but I am focused on healthy growth.
Alex Judd:And that was when we were like, bingo. That's the language. Health and growth are not the same thing. We are going to create and craft a community that is focused on practicing healthy growth.
Ben Loy:If you could boil down, like, what it takes to practice healthy growth into one statement, what would it be?
Alex Judd:Oh gosh. You know, you can really look at this through the business lens, which is really what we do within our coaching program. Right? And and we don't have one statement. We have 12 fundamentals that we walk people through methodically on how to install this paradigm into their business at every level.
Alex Judd:But if we were to zoom back from just business ownership and let's just say life, like you want to be a person that practices healthy growth, here's what I would say is, can you be someone that experiences contentment, joy, and gratitude in the present while being zealful and passionate and adventurous in the way you faithfully move towards the future. And I think that's healthy growth. Right? I see a lot of people that are extremely growth oriented and goal oriented, and they're miserable. Some of the most miserable people I know are the most goal oriented people that I know.
Alex Judd:Right? But then I also see some people that they call it contentment, and in reality, you called attention to this the other day in a meeting. It's like you're confusing contentment with complacency. Mhmm. Right?
Alex Judd:And you've stopped moving forward. You're not looking you're not looking ahead towards anything and you're not expanding in service of others. What's crazy is like, man, if you can manage the tension and that's what I think it is. It's not I haven't figured out how to solve for it. But if you can manage the tension of, like, I'm gonna be joyful and content today while also hopefully and faithfully looking forward to tomorrow and growing into who I'm called to be, I think you nailed it at that point.
Ben Loy:So what's the what's the second one?
Alex Judd:Okay. The the second one, I actually think is a little bit of a practical dive into the idea of healthy growth, and really, it's a conversation about order of operations. Because the second one is this phrase, if you wanna put your business in order, start by putting yourself in order. The first time I ever said that, I'm pretty sure it was, like, to myself in a proverbial mirror, like, saying, like, Alex, like, you gotta start with you. Like, and, but that's not what we so often do.
Alex Judd:What we so often do, and I think we actually have good intentions of doing it, and you can just as easily substitute career for business, right? As we say, I need to get stuff right at work, right? I need to make sure this business is operating correctly. I need to get sales to a certain point. I need to solve these customer issues or solve these team member issues, right?
Alex Judd:I need to get to a certain point out in my work world. And when I do that, then I'll have time to focus more on the things in and related to self control. Right? In and related to my own personal health, my own personal fitness, my spiritual life, my relationship with my spouse even, or my relationship with my kids. And and in me saying that, you can probably hear how faulty and screwed up that is.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. Because I have never once in in all of my time working with business leaders seen a frantic, feeble, frazzled, weak person lead a healthy, centered, stable, strong business. I've never seen it. Right? And like, I'm not putting my money on you being the first.
Alex Judd:Right? Conversely, though, I have absolutely seen healthy, centered, stable, strong people go into work. And even if the work is frazzled, if it's crazy, if, I mean, if it's all on fire, they are the type of person that can actually lead in that situation and introduce order and stability and clarity and direction. And so that's why I think this is so important is it operates counter to our primary impulse because our first impulse is typically like, I need to go focus on all those things out there, and then I'll have time to shore up my relationship with God or or to make sure that I'm physically healthy and well. So just the the fundamental thing that we've said over and over again in in our coaching program that we we have literally built out our path for growth fundamentals around this in terms of how we coach people is if you want to put your business in order, start by putting yourself in order.
Alex Judd:Put some modicum of order in your personal life so that you can be the type of person that can do that in your business.
Ben Loy:I once heard, someone say, like, you shouldn't look for purpose in your work, you should bring purpose to your work. Mhmm. Kind of that idea of putting the carp before the horse.
Alex Judd:I and I think that actually connects to one of the other statements that we're gonna go on to too, but it's wild. I think a lot of people maybe even start their businesses as a business owner, and certainly there was some of this in me, right, where it's like, I'm looking I'm going to work every single day asking the question, who am I? And your work is not where you're supposed to go to get the answer to that question. Right? Like, go to your relationship with your heavenly father for your identity, for your value, for your worth.
Alex Judd:And out of that, like, let work be the overflow of you putting your life in order. The thing that I want to really highlight for people though on this is what I'm not talking about here is that you need to be a personal growth world beater to go do good work. Right? And we live in a time where we see everyone's best example and highlight reel of their ideal morning routine on Instagram. Right?
Alex Judd:And we're, like, trying to figure out, like, how long will this tub of water stay cold for if I go buy a bag of ice every morning and put it
Ben Loy:in there?
Alex Judd:It's like, we're trying to, like, figure out cold plunging. And it's like, maybe you don't need to do cold plunges yet. Maybe just start opening the Bible for five minutes every And and don't underestimate the value of small things done consistently. So don't say, man, before I go do good work or start working on my business or You know, your business demands your stewardship. So I'm not saying you need to like become an Ironman triathlete, do cold plunge every morning and become a theologian overnight before you can work on your business.
Alex Judd:What I am saying is introduce some modicum of base level standard of order in your personal life. This is why in our coaching, we we challenge people, establish one high return habit. Because we can read all the science on habits and recognize that keystone habits are these things that like they carry disproportionate weight, right? Which means the activity itself has ramifications for things that look nothing like the activity. It's why people that make their bed every single morning have a greater tendency to stick to a budget in their personal finances and to eat healthy throughout the day.
Alex Judd:Has nothing to do with making your bed, has everything to do with starting your day with a task completed. And so what's that thing? What's the one thing that if you would do it every single day, it would create disproportionate order in other areas of your life? Like, answer that question and then apply yourself to it. Put yourself in order and don't be surprised when that makes you into more of the type of person that can go to work with the right posture.
Ben Loy:What's the third principle? Okay.
Alex Judd:So the first one was health and growth are not the same thing. The second one was if you want to put your business order, start by putting yourself in order. The third one is a quote about leadership and I'll never forget where I first heard this quote. It's a guy that we've recently become reconnected with and man, it's a prayer of mine and it's something that we're actively having conversations about is having him on this podcast and on this YouTube channel. His name is Clint Bruce.
Alex Judd:He's a retired Navy Seal. The guy the guy is just such a stud. And it was my first ever leadership development event that I've ever organized. It was over ten years ago now. And I was help running this organization called Spur Leadership that I talked about earlier.
Alex Judd:And I'll never forget, we brought in this guest speaker, Clint Bruce. He was from Dallas, and, he was gonna come in and talk about his Navy Seal stories and teach on leadership. And I'll never forget, this guy has just like an imposing presence about him. He is like I I don't even think a big guy is the right word to use. The right word that I would use for Clint is dense.
Alex Judd:Like, he is just a dense individual. And you're like, man, that's the type of guy that like, if he if you accidentally knock into him, not only do you notice it, you're probably on the floor. Like he is just a I mean, he is just the way he is the way that I picture Navy SEALs looking is Clint Bruce. Right? And I'll just never forget the way that he started off this talk.
Alex Judd:He said, I want all of you to listen to me. And and then he just kinda, like, scanned the room, made eye contact with everyone, and he put himself in this position where, you know, for me, I'm fresh out of college, and I'm like, this dude is talking to me right now. He is
Ben Loy:And that's captivated. Oh, dude.
Alex Judd:And isn't just talking to me. He is talking to my soul at this moment. And, he just says with a high degree of poignancy, he says, If someone depends on you, then you are a leader. And I can just look back to that moment. I can say, like, that single sentence has shaped my career.
Alex Judd:Right? Because I'm certain I had thoughts and ideas about leadership up till then that were faulty and flawed. Right? Maybe leadership is authority, means that it's rooted in a position or a title. Maybe I thought that leadership was authority.
Alex Judd:Maybe I thought it was power, right? Your ability to just tell people what to do, right? And in reality, what he was saying is leadership actually depends very little on authority or power. Leadership is much more reliant on influence. And what he was saying is really, if you look around you and there are people that depend on you, which that is the case, unless you live under a rock somewhere, that is absolutely true.
Alex Judd:People depend on you. Then you are a leader. So then the question really isn't are you a leader? The question is, are you leading? And that changes everything.
Alex Judd:And what's so crazy to me is I can say this now because it applied to me back then, but it applies to the people that we work with every single day now. It's the reason why I lean on this quote for almost every keynote that I give. If someone depends on you, you are a leader. I want to, I want people to hear me say that over and over and over again, because here's what I've seen to be true. The single greatest limiting lid to people effectively leading almost always is their inability to view themselves as a leader.
Alex Judd:And if you don't view yourself as a leader, like you're not going to lead well. The minute you start saying, man, I have leadership responsibility. Well, you also like start to adopt leadership opportunity and man, then all bets are off. But that's the phrase that we've been saying. And quite frankly, I've been saying ever since that time, ten years ago, if someone depends on you, then you are a leader.
Ben Loy:We talked about this a few episodes ago when we went through Proverbs, but that idea of of wisdom and, like, what is wisdom? Like, what does it look like to lead in wisdom? And, I mean, Proverbs says, right, the beginning of knowledge, the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord. And I think, like, having having a right view of who God is because, I mean, that's what fear of the Lord is. It's not being afraid of who God is.
Ben Loy:It's having a reverence and understanding of of who he is. And having a right understanding of who God is gives us a right understanding of who we are. And I think that just goes into what you're saying. Right? Like, leading with a right view of of who you are and, like, the impact that you can have on other people.
Alex Judd:I I heard this once, and it was an illustration that was done with an umbrella. And it basically said so many people live we're on video now, so we can do this with the umbrella hanging out here. Right? And the storms of life come and all these decisions that they have to make and all this leadership responsibility that they're trying to hold, and they're holding the umbrella out here. And what is the umbrella?
Alex Judd:The umbrella is the umbrella of authority. Right? They have said, I am the I am all sufficient in myself. I make the decisions. I make the call.
Alex Judd:This all belongs to me. Right? You're holding the umbrella of authority out to the side and you're saying, I've got this. Right? What are we called to do?
Alex Judd:Well, when we stand with an umbrella over us, here's the principle. If you want to get over what God has put under you, you have to get under what God has put over you. And what's so neat about this is it applies to the authority of God being over us and saying, man, fear of the Lord, like you said. Right? Like, I'm gonna apply all reverence and respect to God's wisdom for leading.
Alex Judd:But then also, man, that concept of the umbrella of authority was critically important for me when I wasn't the business owner. And I reported to people that were honoring God, right, and they were focused on glorifying God. They just had different opinions than I did. And, man, it can be hard to learn these lessons, but there's a proper place for respecting and honoring authority in the right way.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. Was there anything else you wanted to say about that third point?
Alex Judd:Well, I would challenge people, create a culture that defines leadership in that way on your team. Right? So, you know, maybe that's a message you need to hear. If someone depends on you, then you are a leader. Maybe you're like, man, I kind of already feel like I've got my leadership responsibility and opportunity.
Alex Judd:Well, then maybe you need to tell your team that, maybe you need to tell your spouse that, maybe you need to tell your kids Right? That there are people that need to hear. I have seen this over and over again. If someone depends on you, you are a leader. And what's crazy is sometimes you will tell the right person that and a light bulb will go off for them.
Alex Judd:And and I mean, it can change the trajectory of their life in so many ways because they start to take on that responsibility that they always had, they just never took in some ways. So that's the final thing that I would say there.
Ben Loy:That's actually, like, one of the reasons why I ended up joining the military was just like a single comment from a friend that I really respected at the time. And Wow. Like What was the comment? I it it it seems it's gonna seem so arbitrary and so ridiculous, but like just spoke into me in a way that like I hadn't really, I think, experienced in the past from even my peers. And I was in I was going to community college at the time.
Ben Loy:I I decided to stay at home and just get my associate's degree and then figure out what it was that I wanted to do next. And I had a couple ideas of, like, what I wanted that to be. But while I was there, after high school, really got into fitness and started to work out more. And Mhmm. I was working at a a Smoothie King for a little bit.
Ben Loy:So, know, you gotta throw them back the protein shakes. But but I I met a guy. He was in a bible study with me. He was in the marines, and, he we would work out multiple times a week together, and it was a great friendship. And, yeah, at one point, I don't remember I don't remember what it was, the workout that we were doing, but it was something that involved you know, it was like a lot of pull ups and a lot of also, like, running, but then we're also lifting weights.
Ben Loy:It was like a very dynamic workout, kind of the what you would expect, like, military, like, functional fitness, you know, the the HIIT CrossFit, like, that kind of that kind of environment, or that kind of philosophy behind fitness. And I, like, finished a set of pull ups, and I turned around. He just looked at me. He's just like, dude, have you ever thought being a Navy SEAL? He was like, that's he's like, you're, like, really fit.
Ben Loy:Like, you can really, like, throw up some really good numbers. And it was it was just funny. It was like this side this one comment from this friend that I, at the point at that point, like, really respected, especially when it came to fitness and, like, look up to, just said that one thing and that was like, oh, like, I see a capability in you that, like, I personally didn't see. And I I it was it's funny. Like, I started to play around with the idea of like, oh, yeah.
Ben Loy:Like, what would it look like if I joined the military? Like, is that really something that I could do? And I mean, one thing led to another and I I didn't join the Navy. I joined the Coast Guard instead, but still pursued like a a difficult elite training and and completed it. And it's just amazing to see the, like, that all I mean, I mean, that really just changed the trajectory of my life in so many ways.
Ben Loy:And it's like the seed to that. Or really maybe the seed was already there, but, like, the spark was just, like, an affirmation from someone that I looked up to.
Alex Judd:Isn't that wild? There's so much in that that I think we could unpack. But part part of it though, I think that story to me highlights two things that we should all be doing is like, number one, be a competent person. Mhmm. Right?
Alex Judd:Like, be the type of person that other people admire because, like, if that dude was a slob that you were eating cheeseburgers with every Tuesday and Thursday, right, that didn't have his act together, and then he, like, suddenly said, have you thought about being a baby seal? It's like that probably doesn't have the same effect on you. Right? It's like, this was a person that you looked up to. Like he had his act together.
Alex Judd:He had put himself in order in some ways. And so that like, it's crazy how the more competent we become, the better we become at the things God has given us to do. It's like the the more weight our words carry in arenas and avenues that might not even be related to our competency. Right? Proverbs says your gift will make room for you in some ways.
Alex Judd:And so it's like he was exceptionally confident. But then the other thing I would say that people need to remember is like become confident at your thing because in some ways that earns you the ability to be listened to. But then the second thing that I think is really important is that I have seen this play out so many times. There will be seasons and there will be times where people you know, there are people in your circle of influence right now that need to borrow some of your belief. Yeah.
Alex Judd:Right? Like, all of us. That guy is a great story. It was like, he believed more about you than you believed in yourself, and he phrased it as a question as the crazy thing. Like, have you ever thought about this?
Alex Judd:And, man, I I can think of story after story where people did that for me, and it would be such a shame if each of us would say, man, there were people who believed in me more than I believed in myself, and that brought me to where I am today. And then we didn't turn around and do that for other people. Like, I think we are actually called to let people borrow some of our of our belief about them.
Ben Loy:Yeah. So number three was if someone depends on you, you're a leader, what's the fourth principle?
Alex Judd:Okay. The fourth one also has a little bit of a setup to it. So we were interviewing John Eldridge on the previous podcast that I hosted, which was the Entre Leadership Podcast at Dave Ramsey's company. And I was interviewing John Eldridge. John Eldridge is probably most known for Wild at Heart, but had just written a book around COVID time.
Alex Judd:He wrote this pre COVID, but then it was released around COVID called Turn Down the Noise or something like that. Pretty prophetic book, right? I don't know how it's sold because people were pretty tuned into the noise around COVID, unfortunately, right? But this is actually a great example of what we just talked about. John Eldredge's words are good.
Alex Judd:He's a brilliant writer and communicator. His affect gives his words so much more weight. Like, have you seen a video of John Eldridge before?
Ben Loy:No. I've honestly I mean, I've read Wild at Heart, but I know I haven't.
Alex Judd:Dude, the way I've heard many pastors talk about the impact that it made on them to spend time with Dallas Willard and with Eugene Peterson. Like, I've heard multiple, like, very well known pastors talk about, like, man, just spending time with them was, like, just different in some ways. It was just a different experience. And not necessarily because of what they said, just because of the weight of who they were, and you just you're with someone that has such a presence about them because they have this quiet and calm assurance of someone that spent a lot of time with Jesus is what I would say. And I I obviously have never spent time with Dallas Willard or Eugene Peterson, but the way people talk about them is the way I felt around John Eldridge, which is credit to him and compliment to him.
Alex Judd:So it was just a really cool interview in so many ways. But I remember asking him at one time, right? That's a podcast particularly focused on business owners. I remember asking him, I I said, John, you're a business owner. You run a nonprofit organization.
Alex Judd:And and I I think it's really possible if someone owns the business for them to, like, equate too much of their identity with what they do. Like, they interweave their identity and their performance in a way that can actually be very detrimental to them and maybe even detrimental to the people they lead. And I think it's a I think it's a problem. And so I just would love for you to speak on that a little bit. I I thought I had framed a pretty original, like, solid question and, like, was really eager to hopefully hear him say, that's a good question, Alex.
Alex Judd:What he said immediately, didn't skip a beat, and maybe lost a little bit of his peaceful affect. She's like, You think it's a problem, Alex? Like, You think it's a problem? He's like, No, I know for sure it's a problem. And I was like, Okay, well there goes my like, I thought I had this great original thought.
Alex Judd:Right? But then he said, the thing that has become the phrase that I now love sharing with people is he said, Every single person listening to this podcast needs to regularly repeatedly hear, remember, and internalize your work is not who you are. Your work is where you serve. And just the way he said it, but then also just the weight of that message, right? Like your work is not who you are.
Alex Judd:And we live in a culture today that is regularly and repeatedly trying to tell us that who you are is your work. You are what you produce. And he said, man, you have to that is not at all the gospel of Jesus Christ. Your work is not who you are. Your work is where you go to serve people.
Alex Judd:Your work is where you go to love people. Your work is where you go to bring your gifts and your talents, all the value of who you are, and to pour it out in the best interest of other people, which is a radical paradigm shift that I like repeating it because I like, I need to hear it over and over and over again.
Ben Loy:One of the things that, I mean, we do every week in our one on ones for Path for Growth is success statements. And we read yellow green. And, I mean, one of the cool things that I've seen is just your reiteration that, hey, we're not red yellow greening you. Like, we're red yellow greening where your role is currently at, where we're at, like, in those success statements, in those goals.
Alex Judd:And I like that you bring up that example because in the sermon on the man, it says, judge not that you be not judged. For with the judgment you use, you yourself will be judged. And I I think that is probably when Jesus said that, he's probably talking about God's eternal role as judge and the arbiter of justice. Right? And that we shouldn't I shouldn't condemn you because of one moment in time.
Alex Judd:And certainly, that's true. But practically, what I often experience is if I equate you with your results and if I if I say Ben is red, right? Well, then it's almost like subconsciously, I can't not apply the same standard to me. Mhmm. And that is a very anxiety inducing thing.
Alex Judd:It's way better as a leader to say, man, in God's eyes, like, I like, I am seen through the lens of Christ's grace. Right? And, like, I am seen through the lens of Jesus's righteousness. That's how God sees me. And my job is to receive grace, repent from any sin that I'm actively engaging in, and then move forward.
Alex Judd:And in that I'm green, right? Like I am, I am like, I don't think God is red, yellow, greening us, but I am deemed as a child of God. And out of that, I get to go do good work, but I have the grace even for when I make mistakes, But none of the work is who I am. It's just what I do. It's where I serve.
Alex Judd:And when I internalize that about myself, well, that absolutely affects the way I engage in my one on one meetings with direct reports. And because I can praise God and know that I am not my results, I don't have to equate you with your results either. We can just put your results on the table and we can talk about them honestly. And then we can say, okay, what do we need to do to move our reds to yellows and our yellows to greens?
Ben Loy:What's some practical advice you could give to someone who right now they see where they place their identity and their work kind of intertwined and they don't really know how to separate those things? Well,
Alex Judd:I would say confess is what I would say. I think I paused there because honestly it can be really easy to go into tactics, and it can be really easy to be like, go find someone that can just encourage you just for who you are. Go write down what you think is true or, you know, go read God's promises for what is true. And and I think all of those things have their place. Go find a counselor, right, that can help you detach your work from who you are.
Alex Judd:What I believe is true though is ultimately, like, our desire to equate our work to who we are is like goes all the way back to the very beginning. Right? Like, the fall is people saying people wanting to make the story about themselves. And when we say my work is who I am, we adopt an I've got this attitude, which is no different than Adam and Eve in the garden. I don't need God.
Alex Judd:I've got this. This is not only is this what I do, this is who I am, and and I can be everything that is needed in this situation. I can be omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent in this situation. What's crazy, though, is that works really well when things are going really well. And people will praise you, people will applaud you, but then the minute it things don't go well, which they will, it will crush you.
Alex Judd:And you have now not just had a bad day at work, you have lost your identity as well. And so what I would say is if you're like me, it can be really helpful to engage in confession with God in prayer and just say, man, I have way, way, way over prioritized approval of man, productivity and image. And for that I don't make excuses, I need forgiveness. And then what I would say is oftentimes, the healing part of confession involves both inviting God into the conversation, but then inviting other people you trust into the conversation. And this is true not even just of confessing this thing, but when you can tell someone that loves you the the thing that you're ashamed of or the thing that you can't believe you did or or you can't believe you're struggling with this, when you can tell them that and they say, I love you, and I I know God forgives you for this, and I forgive you as well, you will start to actually believe that you are not what you do.
Alex Judd:Right? But, I mean, in some ways that in itself is an act of faith because you've got to say the thing and you've got to see the person's eyes looking at you and for them to say, I understand that you did that thing. It's a good thing that's not who you are Because I think it's in that practice of confession and repentance, which is to turn around, that we receive grace and we start to reestablish our identity not in who we are and what we can do, but who God is and who he made us to be.
Ben Loy:Alright. What's the last one?
Alex Judd:So the fifth one is one that, like, truly is foundational for our company. I'll say it, and then I'll get the backstory for it. So so the principle is strength is for service. We've done the audio podcast now for four and a half years, right? And we've been saying this at the end of every podcast, I think since we started, right?
Alex Judd:It's a core value of our company, right? Strength is for service. And the story of where that came from is we shared on a previous episode that, the decision to leave Ramsey coincided, really with, like, the code red COVID season. Right? And I'll never forget, it was before I had actually made the decision to leave.
Alex Judd:I was still working at Ramsey, and COVID it was the day that COVID became, like, a very real thing in The United States. And I'll never forget that they called a full team meeting at Ramsey, and they they deemed it, important enough that they said, we want everyone to come down to the auditorium and just stand apart from each other, but we're gonna bring everyone everyone was already at work. Right? So we were all in the same building. And man, maybe one day we do, like, Dave Ramsey leadership stories episode because there this was one moment of many moments that I just witnessed extraordinary leadership for situations where there wasn't a playbook.
Alex Judd:Right? Like no one knew what they were doing at that time and you really saw the character of people. And I'll never forget Dave got up on stage in front of all thousand people and he said, let's pray. That's how he started. Right?
Alex Judd:And it was a very genuine prayer of like, we do not know what's going to happen here, but we trust you, was essentially what he was praying at that time. And then he just proceeded to very calmly, in a very cool, non anxious way, share the state of the company, share the financial realities of the company, share the trajectory of the company, share the potential effects of what might happen, share some of the models that he and the leadership team had run out of like worst case scenario, expected scenario, best case scenario, and then talk about the role that everyone in the room had to play. And it was not a rah rah meeting. We did not leave there saying, let's go charge. Like, that was not it at all.
Alex Judd:It was like a very like, we prayed to close and then we left. And, it was just very, in some ways, solemn. But I I remember thinking as I was leaving, like, man, I bet there's a lot of people that are leaving this room right now that not by product of anything he said. All he said was the truth. Just by product of where they're at right now, they're probably very worried.
Alex Judd:Like, I bet there's a lot of people in this room that are extremely worried. And I just found myself saying, man, from a personal financial perspective, I'm in good shape. My family is healthy and well. I feel good there. I have really strong community in Tennessee right now, which hasn't always been the case, but was at that time, and I'm very grateful for that.
Alex Judd:And, like, I literally just, like, left feeling grateful. Like, man, if we're gonna go through this season, I'm very grateful that I'm in the the season that I'm in. And the the next morning, I just was kinda continuing in that spirit of gratitude, and I had woken up and was literally just journaling, like, okay. Let's let's put some actual words to this. Like, what are all the things that I'm grateful for?
Alex Judd:And like, wrote, like, I just feel strong. Like, I feel grateful for how strong I am in all of these areas and, just wrote all those things down. And then it was in that context that what I was doing for my bible study at that time was I was reading a passage from the New Testament in the ESV. And then after reading the ESV, I would read it the message version of it. And I was in Romans 15 at this time, and I had just done all my journaling on everything I was grateful for.
Alex Judd:And then I literally I am I am grateful that I feel strong. I'm grateful for strength in this season of turbulence. Flip over to the Bible, read the ESV of Romans 15, and then read the message version. And I'm reading the message version of Romans 15 and smack dab in the middle of the passage, it says, strength is for service. And, I mean, I I still get chills telling this story.
Alex Judd:I got chills at that exact moment. I think I actually had tears in my eyes at that moment. And I literally looked over and I had this page of all these areas where I was strong. And now I had something to do with it. And what's pretty wild is we started doing out of that.
Alex Judd:I said, I literally just asked the question, what are people really going to struggle with in this season? And it was obvious people are going to struggle socially and with community in this season. So we started doing I just put out on Facebook that we were going to do Thursday night strength is for service calls on Zoom. And I was like, I don't know if anyone will show up and I'll be darned, like, 50 people showed up to the first time.
Ben Loy:I'm seeing a trend here.
Alex Judd:Dude, we I mean, yeah. Apparently, my strategy for life is, if you feel like there's a need, like, start a Zoom call and see what happens. Right? And I mean, we did that thing. I think we did it for fifteen weeks and we had a whole team.
Alex Judd:I'll never forget, Susan. She was like our admin for the team. It was all this like, like just purpose and it was just intentional conversation, all of that. There was very little organization to it from my side of things, but it was just such a good reminder in that season of like, man, all of us, regardless of what you're going through right now, there is at least one area in your life where you are strong. Right?
Alex Judd:Maybe it's financially. Maybe it's socially. Maybe it's in your marriage. Maybe it's in in your relationship with your kids. Maybe it's intellectually.
Alex Judd:Maybe it's physically. Right? There is something in your life right now where you are strong. And like, man, you better recognize that strength is not for you. Right?
Alex Judd:Like you were not given that to hoard. Right? The reason why you were given that is not for yourself. It's for others. Right?
Alex Judd:Your strength is for service. And what's so cool is that even when, I would even say especially when, you're going through a tough time, if you can readopt the posture of, Man, there's things that I have that I should be grateful for and those things I should be using to serve others, it's wild how fast you will forget about your quote unquote tough time. And you point your eyes out towards contributing to other people, and I just think what you experience in that moment is what you were made for, is what I would say. So all that to say that phrase strength is for service is something that we say within our community of leaders over and over and over again.
Ben Loy:Is there anything else you want to say before we close out?
Alex Judd:Well, I'd love to review, right? Health and growth are not the same thing. If you wanna put your business in order, start by putting yourself in order. If someone depends on you, then you are a leader. Your work is not who you are.
Alex Judd:Your work is where you serve. And on the backside of that, your strength is for service. So I would say, man, I think those principles are universally applicable. I actually believe that. But then also beyond that, I would tell anyone that's a leader on this call, which by the way, if someone depends on you, you are a leader.
Alex Judd:Man, it doesn't have to be those principles. Find some principles, apply some language to it because it's so easy to say the same thing a billion different ways. It would be better for you to adopt language that's portable and memorable and for you to say that over and over again. Just remember that language creates culture. So we charge people to do this on their own.
Alex Judd:Well, there you have it. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode. If you want any of the information or resources that we mentioned, that's all in the show notes. Hey, before you go, could I ask you for one quick favor? Could you subscribe, rate, and review this podcast episode?
Alex Judd:Your feedback is what helps our team engage in a sequence of never ending improvement. We wanna amplify what's valuable to you and obviously reduce or even remove the things that aren't. Also, you leaving a positive review is what helps us connect with, build trust with, and serve other leaders around the country. So thanks in advance for helping us out on that front. Are you a leader that wants to grow your business in a healthy way, serve people exceptionally well, and glorify God in the process?
Alex Judd:Go to pathforgrowth.com to get more information about our community of impact driven leaders and schedule a call with our team. Hey, thank you so much to the Path for Growth team, Kyle Cummings and the crew at Podcircle and the remarkable leaders that are actively engaged in the Path for Growth community. Y'all are the people that make this podcast possible. Y'all know this. We're rooting for you.
Alex Judd:We're praying for you. We wanna see you win. Remember, my strength is not for me. Your strength is not for you. Our strength is for service.
Alex Judd:Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
